National Express merger with FirstGroup

viperskil · Post by **viperskil** » Sat May 20, 2006 7:42 pm

A monopoly is over 25% market share of an industry or service in this case rail. The main reason why it goes to Compo Comm always I'm guessing is because they own all or majority holding on that region e.g. with First holding all of the services to the south west mainly now they have freedom of price in that area. (If i'm wrong please correct me this is all taken from my economics stuff at school)

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 pm

not sure how true it is
but its been reported on another forum that NX are to hand back the keys either to the whole ONE franchise on june 12th
or that first are taking over the greateastern part of one as a precursor to a merge between first and nx.

how true this is i do not know.

im just repeating what i have heard.

do not shoot the messenger

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:15 pm

in order to aviod a monopoly wouldnt it be eastier for first to run ONE and HULL trains as one franchise say First North Eastern and also i cannot see Sae Containers Limited holding on to GNER when the contract expire's.

The only Real monoply will be London - Northampton - Birmingham - Shrewsbury/Liverpool/Preston/Manchester and London - Grantham - Doncaster. as thse area'a are well within another operator's area or wil lthe open access policy determine the rights of both user's operating over the same area.

AlanP46 · Post by **AlanP46** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:15 pm

salopiangrowler wrote:in order to aviod a monopoly wouldnt it be eastier for first to run ONE and HULL trains as one franchise say First North Eastern and also i cannot see Sae Containers Limited holding on to GNER when the contract expire's.

The only Real monoply will be London - Northampton - Birmingham - Shrewsbury/Liverpool/Preston/Manchester and London - Grantham - Doncaster. as thse area'a are well within another operator's area or wil lthe open access policy determine the rights of both user's operating over the same area.

What are you on about?

Often I read your posts and think "do not feed the troll".

Thats what impression you give.

Sea Containers have won the GNER franchise again.

The areas you mention above wouldn't be. In railways terms at least - London to Birmingham has Chiltern and VT...

eastern · Post by **eastern** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:40 pm

Railwayscene forums in 'one' railway say FirstGroup takeover Great Eastern.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:55 pm

then it will only be the great eastern franchise on ONe going back to its old self.

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:01 pm

salopiangrowler wrote:then it will only be the great eastern franchise on ONe going back to its old self.

thats best news i heard since first got the ok to operate greater western

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:45 pm

No it wouldn't. Greater Western is a disaster - costing more than just the Â£1bn premium payment. The December 2006 timetable will cost them dear - already overcrowded trains were to be cut or reduced in length, and some places were or still are to be left almost unserved, and growth will be lost on the principal routes as HSTs are shortened and downgraded. Plus there is the unmitigated disaster of First's south west bus operations.

Or is this a pointless argument against FirstGroup shareholders?!

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:15 pm

im sure i have said it before .
if not on this forum then on another...
could ery well be that certain servioces will be cut this year to allow for stock refurboshment and an increase in service frequesncy next year ...

which would also raise FGW publicity in returning service levels to normal

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:34 pm

To misquote Alan, I'm tempted to 'not feed the trolls', but on this matter I have to dispute.

n863dwt wrote:im sure i have said it before .
if not on this forum then on another...
could ery well be that certain servioces will be cut this year to allow for stock refurboshment and an increase in service frequesncy next year ...

which would also raise FGW publicity in returning service levels to normal

That is utter rubbish. You do not take out whole swathes of your fleet to refurbish them - they are done one at a time. If you cannot cover the refurb program, then you hire in extra rolling stock. And you certainly don't get your fleet refurbished by returning them to the ROSCO. The truth is that FirstGroup and DfT both willingly signed up to a franchise which cuts services, shortens formations and reduces the standards of on-board service, in return for a Â£1bn premium payment.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Wed May 24, 2006 4:53 pm

thats what you get when you got a bunch of hard faced bank managersd and Doctors who know . all about railways running them.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Wed May 24, 2006 5:13 pm

No, it's what happens when HM Treasury sets the tune which FirstGroup are willing to dance to. To abuse a favourite quote of a former collegue of mine: FirstGroup "couldn't run a bath".

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Wed May 24, 2006 6:59 pm

mattvince wrote:No, it's what happens when HM Treasury sets the tune which FirstGroup are willing to dance to. To abuse a favourite quote of a former collegue of mine: FirstGroup "couldn't run a bath".

The certainly make a proper hash of running to Bath.

Well someone was bound to say it...

LastGroup are dismal, but the real root of the problem is the Government (this one and the one that privatised the railways).

Remember kids, the government wants you in your cars.

johncard · Post by **johncard** » Wed May 24, 2006 8:49 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/arti ... ture.shtml

Have a read of the comments

John

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed May 24, 2006 8:56 pm

Round here - the West Midlands - it's interesting. I consider the bus to be very cheap - Â£1.20 max fare single, Â£1.60 max fare return - however they are generally filthy and the quality of driving is extremely poor to say the least.