School Holiday "fun" - Vandals Strike Near Leeds..

jpantera · Post by **jpantera** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:37 pm

IMO is that a mixture of harsher sentencing and a bit more for teenagers to do is the key. Anyone who objects to skateboarders is barking right up the wrong tree. At least they have an interest and the only thing they want is somewhere to do it. Chavs or scallies as they are known in my neck of the woods have no interest in anything. Their lives are that boring that the buzz of doing something dangerous encourages brickings and the like.

They dont care about consequnces as they dont probably think they would get more than an ASBO. These are now seen as a Badge of honour for scallies. The only people who are respected are Footballers, 'celebrities', and gangsters.

As for someone like me who is a thrash metal fan who has long hair down his back they simply cant cope with that, hence bricks and footballs would always head in my direction when the bus was getting it!

skipperdipper · Post by **skipperdipper** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:06 pm

Recently, 142088 had 17 windows smashed and its fire extinguishers (?) played with by a group on a Warrington Central-Liverpool Lime Street local service at Hough Green. Police are still investigating.

Rob

jpantera · Post by **jpantera** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:09 pm

skipperdipper wrote:Recently, 142088 had 17 windows smashed and its fire extinguishers (?) played with by a group on a Warrington Central-Liverpool Lime Street local service at Hough Green. Police are still investigating.

Rob

Not one arrest was made when the incident happened!

kilkus · Post by **kilkus** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:57 pm

Hmmmm, 'cruel' and 'harsh' punishment is definately something that shouldn't be taken into consideration... That's typical Britain, lock em up and throw away the key, while the rest of us can get back to worrying about what Victoria Beckam is going to call her next dress...

When the average kid of around 14-16 comes out of a young offeneders prison, or has just finished a 6 month, 5 days a week community service cleaning dog s*** off the road, do you honestly think he's going to let that go? Like hell he is! As soon as he's out he's going to find a different plot, and instead of throwing one brick, he'll throw two, or three!

Isn't it strange how most offenders end up offending again and again? Why is this? Instead of sitting in a cell, surely it would be better to help this person sort his life out? If he is a drug addict and a dealer, wouldn't it be better to send this person to a compulsary drug clinic to help him with his addiction instead of sending him to prison where he has all the time in the world to think about his wonderful drugs..? These people need guidance, support, something they most definately lack at home. Prison is such a last resort solution, but im probably a minority who believes this...

Also, kids who do this kind of thing are plainly bored! We need more lesiure centres, more activities during the holidays so these kids can have something to do with their time rather than throwing bricks at trains! Even for graffiti artists, surely it would be better to set up places for these guys to go paint legally instead of graffiting the streets? Even if we allow them to paint scrap trains, that would be better then painting a rolling stock train right?

By punishing these people and sending them to prison, we're only making them more angrier. By helping them, by making them understand that their not alone, and they can do something with their lives, I guarantee you this sort of thing would happen less frequently...

johncard · Post by **johncard** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:09 am

allypally wrote:if they were to fit one of those sirens in my area I think I would forgot my antivandalism stance and smash it myself.

......if I hadn't beaten you to it

How is this thing supposed to work anyway? Granted people's hearing supposedly worsens as they get older, but then it varies from one to another - apparently a work colleague of my Dad couldn't stand being in a computer room for too long because of the high-pitched noise they make. Likewise a hearing impaired youngster isn't going to give a damn.

John

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:42 pm

It's a shame young people arn't held by the US in Cuba otherwise there would be thousands protesting against the torture. Surely it's assault/battery as whoever put the siren up was aiming to cause physical pain to a group of people.

I don't agree that sports centres are the answer; where they are provided they are abused or little used. There'll always be a 'them and us attitude' from both sides. Youth clubs are a different matter, as they're places where youth can be youths.

Councils seem to have abandoned kids in this area; the youth club in vounteered at was a self funded registered charity with no council support for a number of years and was hailed as one of the best in the country. Few facilities (Pool, Table tennis, darts, music nights), but for a time dedicated volunteers who were happy for kids to be kids, didn't treat them like kids and gave them responsibilities. Graffiti was eliminated with toilet walls where they were told they could write without punishment (as long as it wasn't offensive) but which could be wiped clean for other community events. Trips away to the Dales got some kids into the countryside for the first time. In the meantime a council run youth centre was declared structurally unsound and closed; before being given the OK when a private day nursary bought it form the council

MuzTrem · Post by **MuzTrem** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:15 pm

kilkus wrote:By punishing these people and sending them to prison, we're only making them more angrier.

But you can't just leave them unpunished or there will be no deterrant to stop them commiting crime. There are many adults who deliberately get themselves jail sentances because they enjoy the security of prision-and the same could happen here. If throwing bricks at trains gets you help with your drug addictions, all the taxpayers expense, then great, let's all go out bricking trains! That's not to say they shouldn't get help with their problems-soloving these problems is the key to the issue-but they shouldn't use crime as a means of getting it. There are many organisations they can go to, eg Connexions, that they should be directed towards. The brick they throw to get into re-hab may just be the brick that kills someone.
Also, different people react differently to different punishments. Some would undoubtedly be persuaded to live a better life by re-hab, but others would take no notice of it, see it as getting off unpunished, and continue to go out and rebel against society. Wiping dogs mess off the pavement would be highly unpleasant experience that they would not wish to repeat, so they might just think twice before throwing that next brick.

kilkus wrote:Even for graffiti artists, surely it would be better to set up places for these guys to go paint legally instead of graffiting the streets? Even if we allow them to paint scrap trains, that would be better then painting a rolling stock train right?

This is a good idea, and one that it certainly wouldn't hurt to implement, but I do not think it would completely solve te problem. Some will not see legalised graffiti as being "rebellious", and would continue their old ways, and might use peer pressure to influence others into following their negative example.
I certainly agree that we should give these kids more to do. Perhaps preserved railways might be part of the answer? Of course, some would be put off by the negative image with which the tabloid press portrays railway enthusiasts, but I think that, if marketed in the right way, junior supporter's groups could be a good leisure option for young people. Even if they are not enthusiasts (which the vast majority of them won't be) it will give them an oporrtunity to be with other young people, which is never a bad thing. I find that the non-enthusiast members at my local line get just as much out of it as the die-hard railfans-and that applies to adults too. Food for thought, maybe?

Thrashin · Post by **Thrashin** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:41 pm

How is this thing supposed to work anyway?

They reckon that the frequency is so high that only young people can hear it. And dogs, presumably.

People in the North West may have seen the latest vandalism incident on the news this evening: youths threw something onto the main line through Runcorn aiming for Pendolinos. Instead they got the projectile stuck in the catenary, which later caused an arc to the bridge. Running through said bridge was a gas pipe. Bang. A large section of pavement was wrecked, but thankfully the bridge didn't collapse and no-one was on it at the time.

Keelar001 · Post by **Keelar001** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:40 pm

kilkus wrote:Hmmmm, 'cruel' and 'harsh' punishment is definately something that shouldn't be taken into consideration... That's typical Britain, lock em up and throw away the key, while the rest of us can get back to worrying about what Victoria Beckam is going to call her next dress...

When the average kid of around 14-16 comes out of a young offeneders prison, or has just finished a 6 month, 5 days a week community service cleaning dog s*** off the road, do you honestly think he's going to let that go? Like hell he is! As soon as he's out he's going to find a different plot, and instead of throwing one brick, he'll throw two, or three!

Isn't it strange how most offenders end up offending again and again? Why is this? Instead of sitting in a cell, surely it would be better to help this person sort his life out? If he is a drug addict and a dealer, wouldn't it be better to send this person to a compulsary drug clinic to help him with his addiction instead of sending him to prison where he has all the time in the world to think about his wonderful drugs..? These people need guidance, support, something they most definately lack at home. Prison is such a last resort solution, but im probably a minority who believes this...

Also, kids who do this kind of thing are plainly bored! We need more lesiure centres, more activities during the holidays so these kids can have something to do with their time rather than throwing bricks at trains! Even for graffiti artists, surely it would be better to set up places for these guys to go paint legally instead of graffiting the streets? Even if we allow them to paint scrap trains, that would be better then painting a rolling stock train right?

By punishing these people and sending them to prison, we're only making them more angrier. By helping them, by making them understand that their not alone, and they can do something with their lives, I guarantee you this sort of thing would happen less frequently...

Hear hear!

Post by **martinhodgson** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:43 pm

The last train to Carlisle from Lancaster tonight was delayed due to vandalism and subsequent BTP attendance at Crewe, according to the Lancaster station staff!

faedundee2 · Post by **faedundee2** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:52 pm

theres loads of thugs about these day i think it because of some tv programs that show kid herling bricks and stones at trainz.i was on the elr between heywood and bury at the signal check and it had be snowing the night before.so what does a gang of lads do bo start chucking ice balls at the train and one hit the loco and one of the crew was looking over the side.i did have my video camra with me but the batters were flat.shame really cause i would of got a video of the and show it the police.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:59 am

faedundee2 wrote:theres loads of thugs about these day i think it because of some tv programs that show kid herling bricks and stones at trainz.i was on the elr between heywood and bury at the signal check and it had be snowing the night before.so what does a gang of lads do bo start chucking ice balls at the train and one hit the loco and one of the crew was looking over the side.i did have my video camra with me but the batters were flat.shame really cause i would of got a video of the and show it the police.

and the police would do what....... ?

slap them on the wrist show them a video about vandalism giving them idea's on what to do next, and release them because.......

THE JUSTICE SYSTEMS A SHAMBLES AND THE PRISONS ARE FULL OF TAX DODGERS

DarthMunch · Post by **DarthMunch** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:10 pm

Having just read the thread i am disgusted.
As i teenager myself, once when i was taking pictures i was moved along. I asked why when i was only taking pictures, and the person said i may be a threat to the passing trains

Its disgusting that people like me have to be moved along because of idiots that are attacking drivers and trains in such a manner. Its all for fun they, well whats fun about trying to kill someone?

Something really must be done, because i often get sick of taking the blame for someone elses actions.

This message should be put far across,

Chris :drinking:

rwaceyw · Post by **rwaceyw** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:11 pm

Thats if the police would bother to actually come out in the first place..... there where a large selection of chavs tresspassing on another part of the East Lancs and doing the usual; stone throwing, spraying graffiti, wandering around on the track. The station staff rang the police at 2, and they didn't come until 7, by which time the service had ended.

Of course, the police would rather be out targetting those who sell Gollywogs than the true vandals and criminals in our society.

David

viperskil · Post by **viperskil** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Political correctness gone mad. May i ask what is happening with the governments "respect" agenda?