Grange, Hall Castle, King what class is the best

[rwaceyw]

4472 in Australia? How did the wonderous pacific work UPSIDE DOWN!

[dinmore]

Better than most the right way up

[hercules]

So where were all these loyal Flying Scotsman supporters this weekend? The loco is need of a good clean, it stood there all weekend and not a soul near it!

[jdmesq]

Eh, give me a Nothern Pacific A3 4-8-4 Northern. 69,800lbs tractive effort, 398,063kg total weight, one of the most beautiful whistles I've ever heard. Well it was actually an SP&S E1 class, but same sound I would guess. And to hear her work up a ~1 in 40 with 16 cars, that was was a sight to behold!
But, on the other side of the big blue.....
I must admit I enjoy the lines of the Hall Class. Very buisness like, but a very pretty lady nonetheless.

[Keelar001]

The Western built solid, functional engines; and beautifully turned out - has brunswick green with gold lines and brass decoration ever been bettered? Anywhere? I'm a die-hard Southern man, and even I don't think so. If I have to have one from the Western, a 'Castle' is the epitome of Western Elegance.

Mechanically, all Western engine were built to precise measurements (Zeiss optical equipment, folks - in the 1920's) and for sheer ease of operation they were unquestionably the best. Sure footed through wheel arrangement, plenty of weight over the driving wheels, and a superb regulator. It's a pity Bullied couldn't incorporate a better regulator into the West Country's and Battle of Britains... wheelslip was always their Achillies Heel.

[wookey]

does it all really matter guys? lol
imo all steam locos are great


(i do have a fondness for bullied pacifics though )

[maddog989]

i'm new and in a search i've found this. and i am absolutely horrified by what some of you had said. so i'm going to drag it up

i believe 1924 and wembley have been mentioned, this was of course when a castle (pendennis?) was next to the Flying Scotsman, despite the Flying Scotsmans bigger size the Castle was declared the most powerful (based on tractive effort). The trials set up between them after the exhibition showed that the castles were better than the pacifics using less coal and water at the same time. This brings me swiftly onto someone mentioning the longest non stop distance. a train that is better on coal/water coupled to the same tenders will as i'm sure you'll agree be able to go further.

admittedly i'm sure flying scotsman had changed considerably over the period, which brings me swiftly onto the kings. these were still 4-6-0's (just imagine what would of been possible as a pacific!) and these yet again bettered the castles. you'll struggle to find a better looking locomotive than a king! and it's not just a pretty face. the first locomotive to exceed 40,000lbs tractive effort, though would it of been better if this target wasn't there? in the 1948 locomotive trials they didn't compare too favourably, but good enough to maintain their prowess on their hunting grounds. these were effectively unaltered from their original manufactured condition of the late 20's, and it was shortly after that their affloc(?) and double chimneys turned them into even greater performers, and the increased superheat helped with the lower grade coal. these were regularly capable of over 100mph on regular service.

therefore the King has to be the Greatest Steam Locomotive of Great Britain

(recommended reading OS Nock. Stars, Castles and Kings)

[enotayokel]

*preferes E-Loks*

[ashgray]

SNIP... ....which brings me swiftly onto the kings. these were still 4-6-0's (just imagine what would of been possible as a pacific!

In all probability, poorer performance. The main reason why Churchward and Collett retained the GWR's express loco's 4-6-0 configuration rather than design a 'pacific' was thatthe absence of the trailing wheels offered better adhesion to the rear driving wheels, a factor that was crucial in the ability of the Castles and Kings to negotiate the severe curves and gradients of the Devon banks such as Dainton and Ratteray, whilst maintaining their tractive effort without suffering wheelslip problems. The one GWR 'pacific' loco, "The Great Bear", was relatively unsuccessful - horses for courses, as they say.

Ash

[bgstrowger]

There was a Pacific version of a King; it's called an LMS Princess Royal.

If tractive effort is being used as a measure of power, then surely the most powerful steam engine used in passenger service is the Peppercorn A2.

[dikkidee]

Dare I say this - the GWR designed the "Kings" purely because the Southern's Lord Nelsons were the most powerful (Tractive Effort speraking) in the UK and the GWR did'nt like it - hence the Kings. In 1927 the LMS who were strapped for decent motive power at the time pleaded with Swindon for a set of "Castle" drawings and the GWR steadfastly and pig headedly refused. The Southern gave the LMS a complete set of Lord Nelson drawings and from those adapted drawings emerged the original Royal Scots, and a decent Scot, especially a rebuilt one (I know it had a Stanier boiler and he was a Swindon man) could show a Castle a thing or two.____ I know lets talk about Flying Scotsman its far more interesting than the barnch line that heads west from Reading!!!

Regards, Dick.