Looks like GNER keep the EastCoast franchise

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:11 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4370645.stm

(but they have to pay for the privilege - up to Â£1 bn!)

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:38 am

It's good news then.

petermakosch · Post by **petermakosch** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:38 am

Boo!
That means nothing really new. They will keep refurbing the sets to Mallard and thats it for the next three years - no high speed link then!

LucaZone · Post by **LucaZone** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:43 am

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?t=39630

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:09 am

glad to see citizen crow is happy about it as usual. is that man ever happy?

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:08 am

His job isn't to be happy. He's a provacateur with strong Marxist beliefs who uses his position to play politics and try and achieve his ultimatum aim of a nationalised railway system where the staff are some of the most well paid and protected people in Britain regardless of performance and with little care for the passengers. I'd say the RMT members should be careful because I could see him going so far as to end up going down the Scargill route where he is playing politics with the lives of his members and ultimately costing them dearly but sadly there's nobody actually out there with the balls to really stand up to him.

petermakosch · Post by **petermakosch** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:22 pm

citizen crow? Sorry, if that was referring to me. . .

I just think a High-Speed link to Scotland would be good. Look at the other counties, China with their super trains and then America with their High Speed Passenger trains. . .

Virgin said they would make a TGV Style route, i personally would have like that, and like to have seen it been done.

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:34 pm

citizen crow is Bob Crow who's the chief muppet with the RMT.

Virgin could have said whatever they like, noone is this country is going to talk about funding an HSL unless there's an election looming. Fact is that for now we're stuck with what we have and no amount of hot air from Branson will get a High Speed Line built - if there was to be one the West Coast would make more sense anyway as there are more population centres that way. (Brum, Manc, Liverpool compared to Leeds and Newcastle as major big places). Better than either would be a HSL going along the MML route, but that's fantasyland.

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:13 pm

If you were going to build a proper high speed line - ie like the French LGV's and not a fudge that is so typical of the mediocrity of British thinking then it wouldn't make sense to reproduce lines in their existing format. Far better for a line to be built going west towards Birmingham via Reading and possibly Swindon allowing a link to the existing lines to Bristol, Cardiff and Plymouth which if not already capable of doing so would be upgraded to 125mph running. Another one going north towards Manchester also with branches to Liverpool and Leeds and York, then on towards Newcastle and then finally Edinburgh and Glasgow. In the south these lines should continue on at least as far as Gatwick towards Brighton and the south coast and to the west the existing south western mainline fast lines should be upgraded to 125mph running to link high speed services to Portsmouth and Southampton.

Sadly I suspect any high speed line built in this country would have stations every few miles and therefore totally miss the point.

simont · Post by **simont** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:32 pm

If Virgin planned to replace the ECML with a high speed line then they're even stupider than I thought. Surely if they're able to build a high speed line, then they should have done it in place WCML, which needs it more (being hillier and bendier) instead of the compromise of tilting trains, with all the problems that causes? All the West Coast upgrades have pushed it up to the East Coast's speed, and now the they're telling us that on the ECML (a less important route) it's too slow and need of an upgrade? It just proves that Virgin is all about marketing over content, they always have to be seen to be making things new and shiny, without consideration for whether it's an necessary, or even an improvement at all.

I am delighted GNER got their franchise renewed.

petermakosch · Post by **petermakosch** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:22 pm

lol, i dont know, i mean, i see the ECML as a line that is out of the way from anywhere. WCML is squeezed between GWML and MML, which would be a suitable reason why it bends so much, and it only goes half way up north compared with the ECML which i imagine to be rather straight anyway

But then all of that is how it looks on a simple map, not how it is in reality.

Okay, it's a bit far afeched but still. . .
Pete

calvert · Post by **calvert** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:33 pm

Im very pleased that GNER won it, but they have to pay Â£1.3billion to have it?

I really do think that is abit much.

simont · Post by **simont** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:06 pm

The WCML goes just as far north as the ECML (to Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively). Your diagram has it going no further than the MML, presumably to Manchester?

The WCML is bendier for many reasons, partly because it's a more built up area, more towns, more industries but also because it's a lot hiller that way, but these are the things a high speed line can overcome. With the ECML, it doesn't really need to.

staticxfreak · Post by **staticxfreak** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:25 pm

If you wanted the WCML to be a high speed link then you'd have a lot of tunnels to cut....

simont · Post by **simont** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:28 pm

Ever been on a high speed line? "A lot of tunnels" pretty much describes them.