City without rail

rjhowie · Post by **rjhowie** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:48 pm

I was thinking about what's left of the Ulster rail system and that Armagh City lost it's rail connection when I was a boy after wholesale destruction of the rail system by the old UTA. Is there any other actual city in the UK with the same dire situation as the good folk from the Primatial County?!

Bobby

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:05 pm

You might be able to make a case for Fishguard - 2 trains a day just about saves it.

markw · Post by **markw** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:55 pm

Corby (2001 ppn. 53,177) is now regarded as the largest town in England without a train service. I think Caernarfon (9795 popn) is often quoted as the largest town in Wales without a train service but there may be larger self standing towns in the Valleys still without trains. Not sure about Scotland, maybe Hawick (15,700), again perhaps others with a better knowledge of Scottish railway geography an help.

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:17 pm

and the daft thing about Corby is that it has a line running right through the middle of it.

The largest place with no service used to be Mansfield didn't it?

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:53 pm

Wetherby must be high up there.

jp4712 · Post by **jp4712** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:10 pm

No, Wetherby's a fair way off. According to the Office of National Statistics the biggest town in England without a station is Corby; in second place, and the biggest town with no railway at all, is Leigh (Greater Manchester).

Paul

Post by **martinhodgson** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:12 pm

Which is hugely ironic, as their football team is called Leigh Railway Man's Institute. But they were originally Horwich RMI and did an MK Dons

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:15 pm

Railway Mechanics Institute
http://www.leighrmi-mad.co.uk/news/load ... p?CID=ED23

davidaward · Post by **davidaward** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:26 pm

jp4712 wrote:and the biggest town with no railway at all, is Leigh (Greater Manchester).

Paul

True very true and not very far from me, plans have been underway for many years to give it a stupid guided busway along the old line into Manchester, but local residents want either a proper railway or metrolink, neither of which seems likely. The most likely solution that has been talked about would be a station on the Liverpool and Manchester at Kenyon and a bus link to the town centre.

Plus if its British cities without rail that you want.......St Davids is a city with no station but at its size I don't think it qualifies!

markw · Post by **markw** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:17 pm

Interesting.

Gosport is described as being the largest town without a rail service by Hampshire, and their population is 76414, which is bigger than Corby. That said, it's probably difficult to describe it as a free standing town especially given the cross harbour link to Portsmouth. So, it maight be Gosport as the biggest town in the UK without a rail service, followed by Corby then Leigh.

Ripon in Yorkshire (24,500) and Wells, Somerset (10,500) are both ecclesiatical cities without train services.

In Wales only St David's (Population less than 1500!) is classed as a city and doesn't have a train service.

All Scottish cities have a station.

The official list of Cities as defined by the Department for Constitutional Affairs is:

English Cities
Bath
Birmingham
Bradford
Brighton & Hove
Bristol
Carlisle
Cambridge
Canterbury
Chester
Chichester
Coventry
Derby
Durham
Ely
Exeter
Gloucester
Hereford
Kingston-upon-Hull
Lancaster
Leeds
Leicester
Lichfield
Lincoln
Liverpool
London
Manchester
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
Norwich
Nottingham
Oxford
Peterborough
Plymouth
Portsmouth
Preston
Ripon
Salford
Salisbury
Sheffield
Southampton
St Albans
Stoke-on-Trent
Sunderland
Truro
Wakefield
Wells
Westminster
Winchester
Wolverhampton
Worcester
York

Welsh Cities
Bangor, Cardiff, Newport, St David's and Swansea

Scottish Cities
Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Stirling.

Northern Irish Cities
Armagh, Belfast, Lisburn, Londonderry and Newry.

jp4712 · Post by **jp4712** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:39 pm

Interesting contribution, Mark - I reckon Gosport must have a very good claim indeed, especially as if you want to partake of Portsmouth's rail service you either take the ferry or swim for it...

For a lot of these places the population isn't that reliable a guide - after all Stockholm is (so I've heard) by some margin the biggest capital city in the world, if you measure it by land within its boundary, but only because its boundary takes in a good deal of unpopulated forest. Similarly having been to both Corby and Leigh (but I'm better now) Leigh 'feels' much the bigger place but as Leigh is part of Wigan Borough I'm not sure how the population figure is arrived at.

Paul

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:07 pm

Corby had a service for a few years under NSE and it was an extension of the Bletchley to Bedford branch trains.

It was withdrawn, I'd assume, as it wasn't used.

Most of Corby is Scottish and the passenger service went south

Bad idea

nwallace · Post by **nwallace** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:33 pm

markw wrote:Not sure about Scotland, maybe Hawick (15,700), again perhaps others with a better knowledge of Scottish railway geography an help.

Its depends on what type of City you are talking about.

Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Stirling are all Cities by Royal assent

St Andrews, Brechin, Perth (the fair city) and many others are Cities on different basis' (mostly having cathedral)

http://www.siliconglen.com/Scotland/1_24.html

I was going to add quotes from it but theres too much to add

The population of St Andrews is 18,000 though i am not sure if that is including or excluding the Yahs... sorry Posh Rich Kids that couldn't get into Oxbridge.... sorry Students.

Actually the data for StAndrews seems to be questionable.
The uni says 18000
Other sources 16000 with 6000 students
and others 14000

However all but the 14000 figure puts it as larger than Hawick.

Pity neither Iona nor Lismore were ever given Cathedral City Status (they had cathedrals) as they would probably be the worlds least populous place called a city.

barrybryce01475 · Post by **barrybryce01475** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:14 pm

According to the BBC - Corby is also one of the bigger towns in Europe without a railway station. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nort ... 970005.stm

I suppose there always has to be a biggest place without a railway, but it's beyond me why the outlook isn't good...

markw · Post by **markw** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:32 am

I think the issue which caused the demise of the link to Corby was the withdrawal of funding from the local authority. However, it can't of helped that the service was provided by NSE even though neither Kettering nor Corby were in the NSE area. Passenger numbers would have been dented by the fact it was a shuttle from Kettering to Corby and back, not a through service to London or north, and there is always a reduced level of demand when you have to change trains.

The Corby link ran from 1986 to 1990. In 1993 the Railways Act introduced privatisation - so perhaps the withdrawal may have been prompted as much by impending privatisation and uncertainties about having to run an experimental service without guaranteed funding which was being operated by NSE but completely divorced from the two routes which eventually took on the Midland lines, Thameslink and Midland Mainline. Plus there was talk of the Swindon-Oxford-Bletchley-Bedford-Corby-Leicester-Peterborough-Cambridge Regional Railways service being started and taking up the operation, but which was also stifled by the rail privatisation process. Perhaps "one" ought to take up the idea instead, as East Anglia has no direct links with the West of England.