Are the Junipers going to Silverlink?

JCogman · Post by **JCogman** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:11 pm

I've only ever been on a 442 twice, once between Farnborough - Clapham Junction(quite a while ago when they were still in NSE livery) and Waterloo - Basingstoke. IMO, The Desiro's would have to have a major interior overhaul before SWT even consider putting them on Waterloo - Weymouth services. I don't use them an awful lot but when I have, they seem to have been given the hard seat treatment.

trains2 · Post by **trains2** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:37 pm

Exactly, the seating arrangement in the 450's of 3+2 is awful for long distance services, and the seats on both 450's and 444's are comfy, but the 442's ones are very very nice. If they're gonna scrap the 442's, at least take the nice seats out!

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:10 pm

They're not going to scrap the 442s... You don't go scraping an entire train that is only twenty years old just because the traction motors are life expired...

joea1 · Post by **joea1** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:07 pm

Elojikal wrote:Air suspension + whacky rail track + 100mph = rock n roll.

I mean proper tilting at low speed. The service had to terminate at Bornemouth because of it.

trains2 wrote:about 6 of the 30 (?) strong fleet of 458s are in operation, doesn't that tell you something?

Only six? They always run double, half hourly to Reading. I reckon that there are at least 12 in service. Although, go to Wimbledon, you'll see about ten of them stabled next to each other. They're a bit ugly and I don't understand the front design, but I think that internally, they are the best suburban commuter trains.

trains2 · Post by **trains2** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:44 am

Yeah, I think there's only 3 sets running to Reading & back, it doesnt take that long to get there, so having 6 is pefectly ok.

Keelar001 · Post by **Keelar001** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:52 pm

Thought I would add this to the thread, even after all this time, simply for the sake of interest:

As of yesterday, 29 November 2005, out of a total of 28 units, 18 were stopped with defects and awaiting repair.

Frightening isn't it? And the moral of this story? Don't let penny-pinching paper-pushers draw up the specifications for trains. Engineers know better...

joea1 · Post by **joea1** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:00 pm

They're going out of service at the end of next week, so I'm taking a last ride in one. They are quite nice on the inside.

stephenwiseman · Post by **stephenwiseman** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:19 pm

Why are they going?

joea1 · Post by **joea1** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:21 pm

Just to the depots I guess, to cover in case a 450 fails. I think a pair have gone to Gatwick Express.

Keelar001 · Post by **Keelar001** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:33 pm

As far as I am aware 458's are expected to remain in traffic until January next year, when they will be returned to the leasing company. After this, unless there are those on here better informed than myself, the units will probably moulder quietly in a holding siding.

The reliability and on-train facilities have always been a travesty - Alstom are capable of so much better than this - but in terms of traction package and braking package they are peerless. It's always been believed at Wimbledon that these units should have been taken back to works, refitted with 2+2 seating, permenantly coupled as 8-car sets and used on semi-fasts to Southampton and Bournemouth. Their acceleration and braking makes them ideal for fitting in between the 442-worked fasts, and a re-worked interior with perhaps a gaurds office and proper cycle storage would have been something to consider. Maybe knocking out the two "blocked in" driving motors and replacing them with one motor open and one motor brake would have been a good idea?

These units can deliver - with the right money spent on them. One can only hope that the people in charge learn something from this - cheap always costs more in the long run!

87015 · Post by **87015** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:45 pm

Are Alstom really capable of much better? i'm not sure what else theyve built post-privatisation (334s?-whats the story with them) but the 458s have clearly been a failure, 175s are a ongoing fiasco to the point that reliability is so low that the loco-haulage is AGAIN returning to North Wales, and my pet hate, the Pendo-junk is STILL not reliable enough to allow virgin to do away with hauled rakes (even if the locos are rancid), and the ongoing 57-390 drag riots....

i know that many of the problems are down to . TOC specifications for trains as cheap as possible, but Alstom do seem to have one of the lower success rates....

For cheap trains being built on the cheap costing more in the long term, spot on, the 350s are falling apart already with dead toliets, door faults and coaching locked out. Saying that i won't slate them too much-they offer pendo-avoidance moves!

87015

Keelar001 · Post by **Keelar001** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:48 pm

350's proving troublesome? That's interesting - the third-rail Dessies seem to be getting there. I know ours are having their maintenance carried out by Siemens; is the same true for the West Coast fleet?

As to Alstom - I have three letters if you question their competance at building trains:

TGV

These trains were designed and bult by Alstom and in terms of reliability and public appeal I don't know of anything that is their equal.

Mind you, I still laughed at this joke:

"Hornby are releasing a model of the Pendolino and it'll be just like the real thing; it won't tilt and you can't walk through it."

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:56 pm

Keelar001 wrote:350's proving troublesome? That's interesting - the third-rail Dessies seem to be getting there. I know ours are having their maintenance carried out by Siemens; is the same true for the West Coast fleet?

The Siemens fleet are being maintained at Bletchley and LNWR Crewe - the lack of a facility equivalent to Northam possibly explains why they're not doing so well - hopefully this might change once the Northampton facility is built.

As to Alstom - I have three letters if you question their competance at building trains:

TGV

These trains were designed and bult by Alstom and in terms of reliability and public appeal I don't know of anything that is their equal.

Ah, a fine product of the Belfort (France) works. Unlike the Coradias, Junipers and Pendolinos - put together by a bunch of Brummies, hence has all the reliability of an MG-Rover. The old GEC/MetCamm place hasn't produced anything good since the Class 156 - and that's because the Class 156 design team went off to form Hunslet-TPL, with their superbly reliable Class 323.

Mind you, I still laughed at this joke:

"Hornby are releasing a model of the Pendolino and it'll be just like the real thing; it won't tilt and you can't walk through it."

Actually, Belcher reckons the tilt is the one thing which does work on the things...

smila14 · Post by **smila14** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:32 pm

mattvince wrote:
Keelar001 wrote:350's proving troublesome? That's interesting - the third-rail Dessies seem to be getting there. I know ours are having their maintenance carried out by Siemens; is the same true for the West Coast fleet?
The Siemens fleet are being maintained at Bletchley and LNWR Crewe - the lack of a facility equivalent to Northam possibly explains why they're not doing so well - hopefully this might change once the Northampton facility is built.

As to Alstom - I have three letters if you question their competance at building trains:

TGV

These trains were designed and bult by Alstom and in terms of reliability and public appeal I don't know of anything that is their equal.
Ah, a fine product of the Belfort (France) works. Unlike the Coradias, Junipers and Pendolinos - put together by a bunch of Brummies, hence has all the reliability of an MG-Rover. The old GEC/MetCamm place hasn't produced anything good since the Class 156 - and that's because the Class 156 design team went off to form Hunslet-TPL, with their superbly reliable Class 323.

Mind you, I still laughed at this joke:

"Hornby are releasing a model of the Pendolino and it'll be just like the real thing; it won't tilt and you can't walk through it."
Actually, Belcher reckons the tilt is the one thing which does work on the things...

DONT BE TAKING THE PI$$ OUT OF "BRUMMIES", WE ALSO MAKE LDV VANS AND THERE ONE OF THE BEST SELLING VANS IN EUROPE AND THE ONLY VAN TO COMPETE WITH THE FORD TRANSIT, METRO CAMMEL ALSO MADE GOOD BUSES WHICH ARE STILL ON THE ROAD NOW THE MCW METROBUS 20 YEARS ON, THE METRO CAB ALSO.

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:15 pm

MCW Metrobus has always been an awful design, based on capitalising on the collapse of Midland Red.