Are the Junipers going to Silverlink?

[trains2]

a 12 month bump.

Biggest I've seen in a while. I thought that 458 reliability was improving to the point that keeping them and doing away with 442s was being mooted. (That would be a bad idea IMO)

The 442's definatley won't be going, that would be a really stupid move by SWT to get rid of the most reliable EMU they've got, their flagship express units and replace them with what exactly?

However, they are due for refurbishment within the next few years, but I don't know too much about that.

I say if they want something reliable, cheap and a hit with rail fans, bring back the slammers!

[Christopher125]

Hi

I doubt that 442's will be around much longer unless pretty much everything below solebar level gets replaced - being built using parts of 4REP's always meant that they would have a shorter life than a completely new build of train. More 444's seem to be the only sensible option. The 442's still have a few years left in them, although falling reliability due to expiring equipment may become an issue.

Chris

[arabiandisco]

442s are just coming back after G-Exams (or something) and are not performing all that brilliantly. The talk I heard was that they'd go to Southern on the VTB route. 458s would stay with SWT and "replace" them, with a cascade of 444s into 442 diagrams, 450s into some 444 diagrams, and 458s into the 450 diagrams that were vacated by that. IMO this would be a big mistake, as you'd still have a fleet of about 30 units that are incompatible with everything else (though I believe you could multi a 455 and 442), and the quality of train would take a nosedive. the 3+2 seating is uncomfortable on journeys longer than the Basingstoke stoppers, and there are too many 450s on Portsmouth via Eastleigh etc services. Of course, had the SRA allowed them to have the 450/1s (they were to be 5 car with 2+2 seating, and have now gone to the "don't look at us, we didn't use it last" pool on the west coast) then it would make some kind of sense to change. As things are, if they replace 442s, then more 444s is the only sensible thing to do, as they are very good trains.

[trains2]

I do agree with both of you there, however, trains can be refurbished hence this refurbishment programme due up soon, perhaps the REP bogies will be replaced with something modern. The 442's are perfectly decent trains, and although reliability is perhaps dipping slightly, they are a darn sight more reliable than the 458s. As it stands, all 24 SWT Class 442s are in operation, about 6 of the 30 (?) strong fleet of 458s are in operation, doesn't that tell you something?

Obviously, the 442s will be replaced by Desiros in the near future, but the 442s still work fine so im rather confused as to why SWT are thinking of ditching them.

Cheers

[BR7MT]

They could replace the traction package and the traction motors in a similar way as proposed for the 465/0 and 465/1's.

Dan

[1288gaje]

that article is not talking about 458s
458 will deffo go to Scotland

it is talking about the 350s

[allypally]

442s can't work south of Three Bridges (or was it Haywards Heath?), the Mk3 coach body is too wide, hence why HSTs never appeared on Cross Country services to Brighton. One did work down there once, in the early 90's, on an SEMG group railtour, and the adjacent lines had to be closed to allow it.

442s would be great for One, convert them to AC, run them as 10 car sets, and there you are. A Mk3 train with with luggage space and a couple of guards vans, plus a buffet and lounge.

[arabiandisco]

442s can't work south of Three Bridges (or was it Haywards Heath?), the Mk3 coach body is too wide, hence why HSTs never appeared on Cross Country services to Brighton. One did work down there once, in the early 90's, on an SEMG group railtour, and the adjacent lines had to be closed to allow it.

They can get vomiters down there though, and aren't they C3 gauge vehicles? I can't think of any other examples of 23m carriages going that way though.

442s would be great for One, convert them to AC, run them as 10 car sets, and there you are. A Mk3 train with with luggage space and a couple of guards vans, plus a buffet and lounge.

You could say exactly that about the Weymouth line. The only thing against them is the fact that it's an "all stations" beyond Wareham, and the accelleration isn't that good. If the Brockenhurst - Warehams were extended to Weymouth, and the Waterloo trains were changed to stop at Dorchester South only between Wareham and Weymouth... Might need some overtaking opportunities between Bournemouth and Weymouth though. Surely not beyond the wit of man?

[87015]

the article could be talking about 360s which,i am told, Siemens want transferred to the West Coast in exchange for 321s as they are not contracted to maintain 321s at their new shiny Northampton depot and if BY closes two common fleets (321s on the Eastern, 350/360 over here) which is what i think the SRA originally came up with
Could all be rubbish and/or speculation though!

[1288gaje]

the article could be talking about 360s which,i am told, Siemens want transferred to the West Coast in exchange for 321s as they are not contracted to maintain 321s at their new shiny Northampton depot and if BY closes two common fleets (321s on the Eastern, 350/360 over here) which is what i think the SRA originally came up with
Could all be rubbish and/or speculation though!

by the way you do know that article was written a year ago so it is talking about the 350s

[Elojikal]

Hi

I doubt that 442's will be around much longer unless pretty much everything below solebar level gets replaced - being built using parts of 4REP's always meant that they would have a shorter life than a completely new build of train. More 444's seem to be the only sensible option. The 442's still have a few years left in them, although falling reliability due to expiring equipment may become an issue.

Chris

442s are just coming back after G-Exams (or something) and are not performing all that brilliantly. The talk I heard was that they'd go to Southern on the VTB route.

In respose to the right honourable gentlemens points about the reliability of the Class 442 electric trains I refer them to my earlier submission to the house on the 7th of March, 2005.

442s can't work south of Three Bridges (or was it Haywards Heath?), the Mk3 coach body is too wide, hence why HSTs never appeared on Cross Country services to Brighton. One did work down there once, in the early 90's, on an SEMG group railtour, and the adjacent lines had to be closed to allow it.

Mmmm Class 442 trains on the Brighton Express service. Proper Intercity quality coaches! A nice idea but I don't see it happening.

Loading guage issues - Ally is right HSTs were restricted from working on the central division because of the length (all MK3 coach bodies are AFAIK narrower in width than MK1 bodies) of their carriages at 75ft or 23m. In the article that I read that is all that was said - the central division. Which is a bit vague unfortuantly.

I can't really see where on the Brighton Mainline there would be a problem although the 69ft 5-BEL carriages were angled in at the ends because of concerns with tunnel clearances so I'm assuming that if it isn't down to issues relating to platform loading guages then the problem might be with Balcombe tunnel. Otherwise the only other places in the central division that I can think of where 23m length carriages would have problems is the tunnels of the Hastings line (both pre and post electrification) and Lewes station - and tunnel.

[joea1]

The last time I went on a 442, the thing was rocking and tilting all the way from Woking to Bournemouth. If they are getting dodgy, then maybe their days are numbered...

[Elojikal]

Air suspension + whacky rail track + 100mph = rock n roll.

[southcoasttrains]

The 171's have 23m Long coaches and they're running Brighton - Ashford next year, they're regularly going up the mainline to Selhurst.

[skipperdipper]

When I went on a 442 in July from Basingstoke to Clapham Junction it was great, apart from a bit of rocking over pointwork which can be expected!

Rob