HSTS's 30th birthday

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:13 am

Oh yes, and I think that most of the time, if a HST set fails in a station, and can't manage on the one engine, they just cancel the train.

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:22 am

allypally wrote:Oh yes, and I think that most of the time, if a HST set fails in a station, and can't manage on the one engine, they just cancel the train.

Yep....thats what you get with private TOCs.........(waits for the flames)..

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:58 am

I can see your point, but then, if a HST breaks at say, Leuchars, where would a replacement from Virgin come from

With BR, they might have used an East Coast set, but now, would that happen?

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:05 pm

There's no doubt that the HST's are now far more efficient and popular and have more use than when they were built.

That may appear odd but there's a lot about the early years of the HST which has been forgotten and those not around, or very young wouldn't immediately realise.

1) They were unreliable but that has been fixed and is common on new designs.

2) They were inflexible and this caused problems when directly replacing loco-hauled trains. Greater frequency and better diagramming has solved this.

3) They were too short. Not unlike the problem with sprinters. Extra cars were built and one extra was added to the WR and ECML formations to make them 8 and 9-car formations. Extra coaches slowed the performance enough to affect timings.

4) The catering facilities were provided for a market which didn't exist or was being run down to save money. 2 catering vehicles on the ECML sets. This was reduced to one and catering facilities were modified in other coaches but allowed another second class coach.

5) There was no parcels accommodation. This was a huge drawback. It made neccessary a whole new network of express parcels trains mirroring the routes of the HST's. A much needed boost for parcels traffic but costly. The reduction in parcels traffic saw many of these, often lightly loaded trains disappear although some continued until the 90's.

Journey times dropped and one reason was the lack of time at stations required for parcels traffic. A journey before HST's were introduced could see 5 or 10 minutes required for parcels traffic, far more than that required for passengers and their luggage. Luggage space was also seen as inadequate.

6) There was nowhere much for them to use their 125 mph capabilty. On the WR it was a few miles near Reading for many years. They were much like the Pendolinos in this respect and regarded as built to specifications which were unneccessary and wasteful. That's now changed, of course.

7) There acceleration and speed was best applied to the ECML where theie impact was most felt. It was felt they were wasted in areas like Cornwall with low speeds and frequent stops.

The excellent Warships which also had a very high power-to-weight ratio could take 13 or 14 coaches over anything the undulating and twisting Cornish rails could throw at them, single handed,in much the same timings but both were prone to slipping.

All this resulted loco' haulage replacing HST's, late running or timetables eased out which caused anger and frustration. The batch built for cross-country services were even more contravertial as they were considered to be a waste on lines with far slower speeds and who's passenger journeys were far more diverse.

Now, they're far more suitable for modern day requirement and fairly reliable with new engines and the coaching stock has been refurbished but they are a 30 year old design.

Personally, rail travel lost all it's appeal with the withdrawal of the Mk1's as they were far more comfortable, roomy, spacious and you could wander about freely and get some fresh air from an open window.

Pardon the ramble but the history of the HST is a long story and might set current controversy about Pendolinos and Voyagers into perspective

delticmatt100 · Post by **delticmatt100** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:07 pm

Christopher125 wrote:Hi

With 2 years to go perhaps its a bit early to try and predict!

I hope they do, but god knows who they will be operating under, you never know, some may have been scrapped or even sent abroad!

Chris

omg now thats bulls . hsts are hear to stay alot longer . id say around till there 50th.

dont u worry there will be a big protest if such thing happens sooner.

i went to didcot monday just gone and the way they are thumping through didcot id say theres every chance they can stay a long time yet.

matty

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:41 pm

And what TOC listens to train buffs at all, may I ask? The HST sets will most likely be clapped out by the 50 year mark, they are machines, after all. The Mk3 coaches are also quite old. Many HST sets show their age at this present time. Maybe 15 years is a closer estimate? HSTs are designed to 'thump' through any station they aren't stopping at, unless its an audible thump, when there may be a problem. Its true, you cant see the future with any machines, look at the SWT Junipers.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:55 pm

iv e been on a failed HST the night irishman from Holyhead to London 37422 all the way to crewe were the HST was terminated to the joys on the passenger watching the Liverpool - London pull out as they ambled down the staircase towards it. Some threatening looks and words of wisdom, they realised the next train was the Blackpool london also HST. i just went off home on a shabby 153 my 158 never tured up.

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:21 pm

Doesn't look as though they're planning anything special for the HST's 30th birthday this year then. Shame that, as I think it would be magic to see a real live HST and coaches back in BR Blue, Yellow, and Grey livery again. Ah well. Perhaps when they bow out of service, they'll do such a thing like they did with the Class 47's back in 2002.

250787 · Post by **250787** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:16 pm

real live HST and coaches back in BR Blue, Yellow, and Grey livery again

I believe Cotswold Rail are planning to repaint a HST into a "heritage" livery

Cheers

Matt

enotayokel · Post by **enotayokel** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:32 pm

allypally wrote:Oh yes, and I think that most of the time, if a HST set fails in a station, and can't manage on the one engine, they just cancel the train.

FGW won't allow any HSTs with an Engine out to operate West of Exeter, certainly at Plymouth they will either transfer passengers to a spare set or do a powercar swap before allowing a set to attempt the Devon Banks

JSReeves86 · Post by **JSReeves86** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:59 pm

a few weeks ago i saw a HST in sheffield without ethier engine switched on (nothing new there) however come departure time the rerar one started but the leading one would not start whatever they tried. so a couple of minutes later the train left with just the rerar power car running and clagging well. i geuss it will have only made it as far as Derby but not sure.

JR

MuzTrem · Post by **MuzTrem** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:08 pm

jdjonny wrote:I can't believe how many people rate these now...

Steam fans said the same thing about 50s and 47s in the 1960s...

Seriously though, the HSTs have, overall, been a huge sucess for the railway operators, and at the end of the day it's their views that count

Although I don't normally pay much attention to diesels, I do hope a HST set gets preserved, they have become an integral part of the railway scene over the last thirty years, and serve as a reminder that BR did have some good ideas

Shame the APT wasn't as successful...

steve74 · Post by **steve74** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:38 pm

Yup, I love the sound an HST makes leaving a station or even just blasting by you. No other train has the same sort of shriek they give under full chat. Hope they go on for many more years.

viperskil · Post by **viperskil** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:17 pm

HST's are legendary machines but it really isn't such a good 30 for them with all these talks of HST2. WE should be looking back to its legacy this year not wanting to ditch them. On the other hand though it is the only modern diesel to have proper new builds based on its design to carry on its work for another generation.

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:44 pm

IMO the HST is up there with concorde as far as British engineering achievements go. More so, in fact, as the french weren't involved with the HST, and we actually managed to flog the HST abroad (well, to Australia).