Crazy fares structure

[XPTE]

I have noticed a number of crazy fares structures on if I want to travel from Bristol.

The "walk on" return fare from Bristol-London on the direct route with FGW is a staggering £43.20. Despite only 5 years ago, the walk on fare being £27, making it a rise of over 50% in 5 years! Also, the walk on fare with South West Trains from Bristol-London via their longer route is just £22.50, much more reasonably priced.

Now Bristol-Cardiff, the walk on return fare is just £7.50 which is pretty good. And I think this fare hasn't changed much atall in over 10 years now. Bristol-Cardiff is approx 45 miles, for £7.50 return. Bristol-London is only 120 miles(not even 3 times as far as Bristol-Cardiff), for £43.20 return! Not even 3 times longer in distance than Bristol-Cardiff, but about 6 times the price!

Why is it so expensive to travel with FGW to London? The walk on return fare from Bristol-Paignton which is getting on for the same sort of mileage, is only £22.60, allmost half the price of Bristol-London.

And finally, Bristol-Birmingham. Walk on return fare is a staggering £33.70 which is ridiculous considering its only about 90 miles(only twice the distance as Cardiff). Yet I have found a way to get it cheaper if you're travelling on the day. Get a day return from Bristol-Cheltenham for £9, and a day return from Chelthenham-Birmingham for just £13.40, bringing the total fare down to a more reasonable £22.40 in total. Though fortunately, if you're travelling on a Saturday and book by 6pm the day before you should be able to get a £15 return fare with Virgin's "Saturday Day Out" fare. If however you're travelling on any other day then then you'll be lucky if you can get it cheaper than £33.70!

Does anyone else have any details of examples of crazy and ridiculous priced fares structures?

[166Driver]

Nah mate. The whole UK rail system is a rip off, extremely overpriced. A few weeks ago I wanted to go up to sheffield with my mum, who is an OAP, she didn't have a railcard, and I would have had to pay full price too. We were a bit short of money, but £90 for the both of us is a bit extreme. I said it would be cheaper for me to buy a secondhand car, put some petrol in, and drive up there myself. And unfortunately that's true. Rip off Britain strikes again, a never ending cycle...

What's more silly, is that you can get a reduction in price if you book several weeks in advance, but you never know when you have to travel.

Travelling by rail will never be value for money, in this country anyway.

[slipdigby]

Why is it so expensive to travel with FGW to London? The walk on return fare from Bristol-Paignton which is getting on for the same sort of mileage, is only £22.60, allmost half the price of Bristol-London.

The markets are very different, it's simply charging what the market will bear. If FGW can fill trains at £20 or £40, then it is commercially sensible that they should charge £40.

Nah mate. The whole UK rail system is a rip off, extremely overpriced. A few weeks ago I wanted to go up to sheffield with my mum, who is an OAP, she didn't have a railcard, and I would have had to pay full price too. We were a bit short of money, but £90 for the both of us is a bit extreme. I said it would be cheaper for me to buy a secondhand car, put some petrol in, and drive up there myself. And unfortunately that's true. Rip off Britain strikes again, a never ending cycle...

So £45 each, why not invest in an SC railcard at £20 cutting the fair to £30 (Total cost £50). An extra £5 to save a fortune in future.

If indeed there was a better option than getting the train, then sense shoud decree that you take that option. Complaining about poor value for money but then spending it anyway does seem a bit illogical.

What's more silly, is that you can get a reduction in price if you book several weeks in advance, but you never know when you have to travel.

Why silly? It's yield management. If you can fill off peak services, reduce peak overcrowding, make people think they are getting a deal and maximise return on a captive market, then that is good use of resources. It's the way of the free market.

Travelling by rail will never be value for money, in this country anyway.

Rubbish. I suspect most people would consider being able to travel from Preston to London all in return for under £30 good value for money.

Slip

[nwallace]

There is also everypossibility that the old price was loss making.

£4 quid from Spean Bridge to Corrour

Bargain... pity about having to walk back though

[allypally]

£2.00 from Telford to Wolverhampton is also good. Its quite cheap, however London is just one of those annoying 'prestige' destinations.

[nwallace]

Dundee to Leuchars costs nearly the same as Leuchars to Edinburgh.

Thats one hell of a toll for crossing the bridge

[XPTE]

It's not all rip-off prices. £7.50 Bristol-Cardiff walk on day return fare isn't too bad, and if you can get it if booked ahead, Bristol-Birmingham either £15 return or £8 single is pretty good value. Apparantly, its also possible to go from London Euston-Glasgow for just £16 single too. Though I've just had an experimental search on TheTrainline.com and couldn't find a £16 single fare but found a £24 single fare(still a good price though) and the cheapest I could find for the journey back to London Euston was £32, making £56 in total. Which isn't too bad atall really.

You can find some cheap/reasonable fares out there but you'll just have to search for them. I find TheTrainline.com is easier to use to find the cheapest fares than Qjump.

Prime examples of the rip-off fares though are the Bristol-Birmingham and Bristol-London "walk on" return fares at £33.70 and £43.20. I'd never pay those daylight robbery prices myself.

[fs9freak]

The main reason rail prices are so high is down to politics (no, don't all fall asleep just yet!) We don't have to pay for just one network of rails, we have to help pay for other countries' lines as well!
It's all down to an agreement at a European Covention somewhere (the "lets all bug**r up britain, because their economy hasn't crashed yet" agreement!).

[divydave31]

Ok you think the price structure is funny, look at this.

The other week me and the other half diceded to go out for the day.
We ended up in carlisle, but the way we did it was by buying 2 returns to Glasgow From Balloch, which cost £4.10 each, Total £8.20.
At Glasgow Central we purchased 2 day returnes to Carlisle, for Virgin trains, costing £15.00 each, Total £30.00, which is a grand total of £38.20.

If we had purchased an open return Ticket it would have cost a stagering £60.00 each, Total being £120.00, so by purchasing a day return to Glasgow then using the booking office in Glasgow to purchase another day return we saved a massive £82.00. This is not a scotrail service by the way, it was using Virgin Trains.

Here are the screenshots of the pricing structure.

[markw]

Where were you lot during the 1970's, 80's and 90's?

The reason why many fares in the UK are amongst the highest in the world (although these comparisons when made by newspapers often forget that in continental Europe you have to pay supplements to use anything faster than the all-stations or inter-regional services - virtually all European Intercity services have hefty supplements) is because successive governments, of both main parties, consistently prevented BR from buying the amount of rolling stock it actually wanted to buy. For example, the original plan was for 161 HST sets, but only 95 ever got built. The Sprinter DMU replacement programme was only authorised on a two new Sprinter coaches for three old DMU cars scrapped. The loco-hauled Mk3 fleet was intended to be substantially bigger. However, at the same time, passenger numbers were increasing as the new trains came in. So, BR was faced with overcrowded HST's and Sprinters, and no authority or money to increase the fleet - so it openly and deliberately started to increase fares at busy times to literally price people off the trains - the hope being some could transfer to lesser used off peak trains, but frankly some would be priced into other modes - and if you have a train, full with passengers paying a higher price and are making money at it, why worry where the rest of the traffic goes? You are using the train to it's maximum capacity at a price people are prepared to pay. And ever since the 1968 Transport Act up until Privatisation, the Railways were expected to run on a commercial basis, with the State giving financial assistance to run specific unprofitable routes it would not allow the BRB to close. Privatisation has changed the funding processes as Franchises are now awarded (oddly, the reverse of what happened with bus deregulation, where block grants used to be given but now route specific tenders are compulsory - the Railways used to get route specific grant aid, now it's a block Franchise!), but railways are still expected to operate commercially in amny cases.

Of course, Privatisation was introduced with a range of basic fares regulated, so as not to be increased beyond reasonable levels as determined by the Regulator. These fares were the open single and returns, season tickets and the basic Saver. These can only be increased according to a formula set by the regulator. However, these were precisely the fares BR had been raising at inflation busting rates in order to manage demand, and so were already the most expensive tickets available.

So the high fare levels of "ordinary" and "interchangeable" tickets in this country is absolutely nothing to do with Britain subsidising European railways ( a completely barking idea, one for the EuroMyths website alongside straight bananas and banning of double deckers...), but everything to do with a series of Government's unwillingness to spend taxpayer's money on additional stock which would largely sit idle for long periods anyway, and having to ration demand for the seats that are available, and stimulate demand when more seats are available. Something every airline in the world does, German railways adopted last year, French Railways have done for a while on busy TGV services, and many other railways are looking at. It's basic economics, when demand outstrips supply the price will rise.

[slipdigby]

The main reason rail prices are so high is down to politics (no, don't all fall asleep just yet!) We don't have to pay for just one network of rails, we have to help pay for other countries' lines as well!
It's all down to an agreement at a European Covention somewhere (the "lets all bug**r up britain, because their economy hasn't crashed yet" agreement!).

Evidence please if you are going to make decisive statements like that.

Any link between whether the UK is a net contributor or recipient of EU funds, and the fact that Virgin have hiked up the SOR fare from Manchester to London by xxx% is pretty tenuous anyway.

Slip

[XPTE]

Just found another rip off fare. Reading-London Paddington walk on return fare £22.60!!! This was when I was experimenting to see if its possible to cheaper walk on return fare if travelling from Bristol-London. However, unlike the Bristol-Birmingham journey its not possible to get it cheaper than the staggering £43.20.

Like Divvydave and I have said its well worth experimenting on TheTrainline to see if there is a way round it how you can get the fares cheaper, i.e. instead of paying £33.60 for a day return from Bristol-Birmingham get 2 seperate return fares from Bristol-Chelthenham and Cheltenham-Birmingham and bring that cost right down to £22.40, or even £20.40 if you get a Central Train service from Cheltenham. £20.40 if you decide to go up to Birmingham on the off-chance isn't too bad atall. Or £15 instead of £60 if travelling from Balloch-Carlisle!