East Coast Have Gone Mental

[MuzTrem]

Electrics plus diesel locos is probably the most sensible option. After all, it can already be done with 225s and Pendolinos when required; perhaps the under-employed DBS 67s could be utilised?

For that matter, why not just have loco-hauled sets? Electric locos for ECML/WCML, diesel locos for the GWML and MML. If those lines can be electrified within the life of the new trains, then buy more electrics and cascade the diesels to other duties or sell them abroad. Job done.

At any rate, if the government are serious about electifying the GWML/MML within the lifetime of these trains, it makes no sense to go to the extra expense and complication of developing electro-diesel units.

[Esurient]

There is no point in building HS2, after the WCML upgrade.

There is every point in building HS2! Firstly, remember that despite all those billions they invested, they had to give up on the aim of 140mph running for the WCML. Even if they could, our trains will always be handicapped by the restricted British loading gauge. The moral is that you can't go on upgrading creaking old Victorian infrastructure forever. In any case, IIRC the WCML is already running at about 90% of its capacity, and demand for train travel is rising. Building HS2 would be far better environmentally than new motorways or an increase in domestic flights.

Build HS2 and we'll have a main line fit for the 21st century, potentially able to accomodate through trains from the continent, at speeds that will make a real difference to journey times. This will then release capacity on the exisiting ECML and WCML for more stopping services and freight traffic.

Come on guys, call yourselves railway enthusiasts? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Britain could be on the cusp of a new railway age...if you want it!

HS2 is only going to link a few mainline stations. It isn't going to drastically improve journey times either. Domestic flights and motorway traffic isn't going to reduce, despite HS2 or not. Expanded viaducts, tunnels and better OHLE and newley laid track, obviously isn't a permanent solution but it would certainly increase capacity aswell as improve journey times, in some areas. We already have trains that link to the continent.

There's a difference in being a railway enthusiast and what's actually going to be good for the country. If the railway was run for enthusiasts, you can be sure that all HSTs would have Valenta engines, DMUs and EMUs would be loco hauled and the Flying Scotsman running mainline services instead of charters. (I don't intend to offend anyone by this) but the fact is that the railway isn't just for enthusiasts, it's for everyone and it needs to be ran in the best way possible for the country and when it comes to the DfT (and the general government) doing the right thing for the country, they're not exactly the best for it but hey ho, we're stuck with it.

[67025]

Sticking to the thread ... I Think east coast should either rent or buy some 170 and 158 units .. if they want to make more money then why dont they take to the small lines . not just sticking the ECML etc .

[Esurient]

Sticking to the thread ... I Think east coast should either rent or buy some 170 and 158 units .. if they want to make more money then why dont they take to the small lines . not just sticking the ECML etc .

The DfT won't let them. They were planning a direct link from KGX to Lincoln, can't remember what it was, two hourly or two a day but they're only doing one journey each way, per day.

[MuzTrem]

If the railway was run for enthusiasts, you can be sure that all HSTs would have Valenta engines, DMUs and EMUs would be loco hauled and the Flying Scotsman running mainline services instead of charters. (I don't intend to offend anyone by this) but the fact is that the railway isn't just for enthusiasts, it's for everyone and it needs to be ran in the best way possible for the country

For me as a steam enthusiast, there's a difference between being a steam enthusiast and a railway enthusiast. Yes, the steam enthusiast in me would love to Gresley Pacifics and teak coaches reinstated on ECML expresses - the railway enthusiast in me certainly doesn't!

To me, being a railway enthusiast means wanting what's best for the railway network - even if that makes it less interesting. I want the government to put railways at the heart of their transport policy. And for me, that goes hand in hand with my patriotism. If we'd had a more far-sighted government that had invested in high-speed rail in the '60s and '70s rather than motorways, how much more pleasant Britain would be today! We've made ourselves dependent on cars, a hopelessly inefficient mode of travel. Even if electric cars can be made to work it won't solve the problem of congestion.

It would cost billions to upgrade the WCML the continental loading gauge, and even then you're probably still reliant on tilting trains. Sometimes it really is more efficient to start from scratch. The Japanese and the French have proved that if you give people a fantastic high-speed service, people will use it. Yes, motorway use won't decrease, but what I want is stop it increasing further.

I'm sorry to drive the thread off-topic, but it just exasperates me that, after so many years of complaining about the decline of the railways, when the government finally makes a serious plan to revitalise them people say "no, we don't need that..."

[almark]

Bring on the pendo's,bit fed up of the crowded 91s now.

[67025]

Pendolinos look best in Virgin , Keep the 91s

[danny3]

Pendolinos look best in Virgin , Keep the 91s

I don't think that they will even be in virgin livery for that much longer, since there are rumours going around that they will lose the wcml routes in 2012!

[Esurient]

If the railway was run for enthusiasts, you can be sure that all HSTs would have Valenta engines, DMUs and EMUs would be loco hauled and the Flying Scotsman running mainline services instead of charters. (I don't intend to offend anyone by this) but the fact is that the railway isn't just for enthusiasts, it's for everyone and it needs to be ran in the best way possible for the country

For me as a steam enthusiast, there's a difference between being a steam enthusiast and a railway enthusiast. Yes, the steam enthusiast in me would love to Gresley Pacifics and teak coaches reinstated on ECML expresses - the railway enthusiast in me certainly doesn't!

To me, being a railway enthusiast means wanting what's best for the railway network - even if that makes it less interesting. I want the government to put railways at the heart of their transport policy. And for me, that goes hand in hand with my patriotism. If we'd had a more far-sighted government that had invested in high-speed rail in the '60s and '70s rather than motorways, how much more pleasant Britain would be today! We've made ourselves dependent on cars, a hopelessly inefficient mode of travel. Even if electric cars can be made to work it won't solve the problem of congestion.

It would cost billions to upgrade the WCML the continental loading gauge, and even then you're probably still reliant on tilting trains. Sometimes it really is more efficient to start from scratch. The Japanese and the French have proved that if you give people a fantastic high-speed service, people will use it. Yes, motorway use won't decrease, but what I want is stop it increasing further.

I'm sorry to drive the thread off-topic, but it just exasperates me that, after so many years of complaining about the decline of the railways, when the government finally makes a serious plan to revitalise them people say "no, we don't need that..."

The railway will never be at the heart of the governments transport policy, whatever can rake in as much money as possible will be. The motorways are good but albeit, there is too much investment into it. All forms of transport needs to be invested in. Congestion is a problem, whatever mode of transport you use. You can call cars an 'inefficient mode of travel' but it's what people want, the railway is just far too expensive for most people. Yes, it'll cost billions to upgrade the WCML but so will HS2. The Japanese and French may have proved that starting from scratch can be a good idea but it's how you go about doing it, the UK will never provide a railway service near as good as Japan, France or Europe. HS2 will come but it'll be far from perfect.

It's not about saying "No, we don't need that" it's the fact that it won't be done properly, just like everything else. Whatever project it is, the most important part of it is always missed out, leading to more 'redevelopments'.

Not trying to start a war or anything, just everyones entitled to an opinion.

[glasgowworks]

The railway will never be at the heart of the governments transport policy, whatever can rake in as much money as possible will be. The motorways are good but albeit, there is too much investment into it. All forms of transport needs to be invested in. Congestion is a problem, whatever mode of transport you use. You can call cars an 'inefficient mode of travel' but it's what people want, the railway is just far too expensive for most people. Yes, it'll cost billions to upgrade the WCML but so will HS2. The Japanese and French may have proved that starting from scratch can be a good idea but it's how you go about doing it, the UK will never provide a railway service near as good as Japan, France or Europe. HS2 will come but it'll be far from perfect.

It's not about saying "No, we don't need that" it's the fact that it won't be done properly, just like everything else. Whatever project it is, the most important part of it is always missed out, leading to more 'redevelopments'.

Not trying to start a war or anything, just everyones entitled to an opinion.

Everything is all down to money, but you've got to remember that we are living in Rip-off Britain. Besides, it was on the news last week that the rail fares are going up from January 2011.

I don't think that they will even be in virgin livery for that much longer, since there are rumours going around that they will lose the wcml routes in 2012!

Virgin West Coast is due to expire on 31 March 2012, so no one knows whenever Virgin will renew the franchise.

[67025]

Pretendolino

[danny3]

I don't think that they will even be in virgin livery for that much longer, since there are rumours going around that they will lose the wcml routes in 2012!

Virgin West Coast is due to expire on 31 March 2012, so no one knows whenever Virgin will renew the franchise.

I think that its more of a case if the Dft will let them renew it rather than virgin though and apparently the dft apparently don't like virgin trains for various reasons (again rumours)

[67025]

Im sorry but i think East Coast have killed the 91 with this livery :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggzzOvYE ... re=related

[USRailFan]

That 91 has the original NXEC livery... (the GNER livery with 'GNER' removed and the stripe changed from red to white)

[67025]

Sorry i ment the Carriages and the class 82 , i think GC need to get some of these 225 sets and repaint them . All i ever see in magazines is "GC broke down 47 or 57 to the rescue" they only have deisel locos . which can be a little bit of a pain !!! Like arriva they only have Deisels and dont get me started on how many times they have broken down