East Coast Have Gone Mental

[455driver]

Not sure if im missing something but is that picture not a fake? If you look at the original webpage it has lots of fictional liveries on it. Or is this actually real and they do have a 390 already?

[67025]

No they are ordering the 390 in 2012 or 2011 , this image was in the Rail magazine .

here is a website for the news ,

http://rail-news.com/2010/08/11/east-co ... ino-train/

[Esurient]

390 should be with EC by the end of 2011!

[67025]

someone stop them before something goes wrong !

[GlennMitchell]

Maybe it would be possible to start considering clearing the ECML for 140mph running again. I don't think I'm old enough to remember it but I know it did happen once and they still have the flashing green aspect in parts of Cambridgeshire between Peterboro' and Grantham. Also why not North of York where the line is pretty straight?? Surely this would bring journey times to Newcastle into line with the proposals of HS2 which are only actually about 30 mins faster than the ECML anyway??

Glenn

[AlistairW]

I think you'd be hard pushed to shave much time off even with 140mph running.

A quick back of the envelope calculation.

We will say that for 140miles they are running at 140mph (60 minutes travel time). This allows for 100 miles between Kings X and York and a further 40 miles between York and Darlington at 140. The remaining 90 miles (between Kings X and Darlington) will be made up of speeds below 125, which includes acceleration time.

So the train will be completing the "fast" 140miles in just 60 minutes whereas today it is currently completing it in 67 minutes (125mph). Meaning a journey time reduction of 7 minutes between Kings X and Darlington.

I agree its a good idea and I'm personally all for it, including more grade seperation at junctions and some substantional 4 tracking. However sadly its unlikely to bring the journey time in line with HS2.

Ali

[danielw2599]

You wont find any running above 125mph without in cab signalling so you can count 140mph out...at least for a long while.

[Esurient]

Don't think it'll be just about the whole 140mph running. If the ECML, does ever get the long over due upgrade its due, then hopefully, it'll be able to run tilting trains, just like the WCML, allowing for higher speeds into bends. Albeit, it wont drastically cut down the journey times but with if it could support tilting trains and in-cab signalling was ever done, it would possibly be better than building HS2.

[GlennMitchell]

Don't think it'll be just about the whole 140mph running. If the ECML, does ever get the long over due upgrade its due, then hopefully, it'll be able to run tilting trains, just like the WCML, allowing for higher speeds into bends. Albeit, it wont drastically cut down the journey times but with if it could support tilting trains and in-cab signalling was ever done, it would possibly be better than building HS2.

Well said. I know there is a greater population density up the WCML corridor but that line has just had over £9bn investment over the last 15 years and now they just want to build a high speed line serving the main towns and cities. I know that it would serve Sheffield/Leeds/Newcastle but this is a major diversion for these cities and completely cuts out most places south of Sheffield which seems a bit unfair.

[Esurient]

There is no point in building HS2, after the WCML upgrade. They're going to need a whole lot of new track, OHLE, signals etc for HS2. Why not skip the old "planning where HS2 will start and finish" and upgrade the assests on both ECML and WCML. Stronger OHLE, better signalling and junctions (allow higher speed crossovers, like Colton Junction (i think) near York). There are already two perfectly good routes from London to the North, it's just a shame the DfT can't see that. Upgrade the infrastructure, upgrade the stock. Job sorted.

[USRailFan]

Does this mean the Hitachi Super Express is dead? Or are the Pendolinos only a stop-gap?

[danny3]

They haven't decided on the IEP yet as far as I know?, although I thought that East Coast were going to use one of the already built 4 - Class 390 - 11 cars since the DFT wont let Virgin have them!

[MuzTrem]

There is no point in building HS2, after the WCML upgrade.

There is every point in building HS2! Firstly, remember that despite all those billions they invested, they had to give up on the aim of 140mph running for the WCML. Even if they could, our trains will always be handicapped by the restricted British loading gauge. The moral is that you can't go on upgrading creaking old Victorian infrastructure forever. In any case, IIRC the WCML is already running at about 90% of its capacity, and demand for train travel is rising. Building HS2 would be far better environmentally than new motorways or an increase in domestic flights.

Build HS2 and we'll have a main line fit for the 21st century, potentially able to accomodate through trains from the continent, at speeds that will make a real difference to journey times. This will then release capacity on the exisiting ECML and WCML for more stopping services and freight traffic.

Come on guys, call yourselves railway enthusiasts? I've said it before and I'll say it again: Britain could be on the cusp of a new railway age...if you want it!

[AlistairW]

Does this mean the Hitachi Super Express is dead? Or are the Pendolinos only a stop-gap?

The IEP isn't dead (just yet). The government was looking at four options.
- IEP but a cheaper version (Electric and a Bi Mode sets)
- Electric only
- Electric fleet with a stand alone diesel engine that could be coupled when required
- Major HST refurbishment

They recently announced that the electric only option was dropped as they didn't like the idea of making passengers change trains. They also dropped the HST refurbishment idea. This will leave us with either a cheaper version IEP (Electric/Bi Mode sets) or an electric fleet with diesel locos. I'm not sure if the latter would be from Hitachi or not.

Full press release (last paragraph): http://nds.coi.gov.uk/clientmicrosite/C ... bjectId=36

[USRailFan]

I can understand that they dropped the idea of a major HST refurbishment.. In 5 years the oldest HSTs will be 40 years old, a major refurbishment would have to be pretty much a complete newbuild if they wanted them to last much more than 10 extra years...