HS2 - who's going to build it?

[qzdcg8]

OK so I probably posted this in the wrong slot - should have been in a Route Builders forum - when I said "who's gonna a build it?" I meant "who's gonna build a RS/RW/MSTS version?"

As for the real thing - it DOES need building - once again I see people in the South East whinging about not getting something - this ISN'T ABOUT YOU - YOU have wasted enough money on Cross Rail and Thameslink and East London Line and the list goes on - this is about north of Watford - you know, the regions, where the great unwashed live!

I've been doing the Manchester to London WCML commute for over four years - and shaving an hour off that (total both ways) is absolutely worth doing - and pushing the big city (Manchester/Birmingham) traffic onto HS2 will free up paths for smaller towns on the WCML to get a better service ...

[jbilton]

Hi Steve
Well if you got yourself a laptop .... you could build it during all that time on the train.
Seriously that must be a very tiring life ... I wouldn't want to do it .... must be really good wages.
Unless you really like the weather in Manchester...

Cheers
Jon

[qzdcg8]

if only Jon - southbound journey is, however, valuable sleeping time and northbound I work on the train (can't afford to sleep through Stockport station - not a problem going the other way )

[danny3]

As for the real thing - it DOES need building - once again I see people in the South East whinging about not getting something - this ISN'T ABOUT YOU - YOU have wasted enough money on Cross Rail and Thameslink and East London Line and the list goes on - this is about north of Watford - you know, the regions, where the great unwashed live!

No offence but when has london been the whole south east?, sure kent did get HS1 but that only gave improvements to Canterbury, Ashford, Dover and Ramsgate. Most of the other parts actually got slightly worse because of that with longer journey times (including myself!). One reason for more investment in the south east could be because that is where the capital is and the government wants the area to look good for the olympics.

(Just to note: I'm not moaning about the South East not getting more, I'm just proving a point!)

Also - Scotrail - nice new Class 380s, First Transpennie - 185s (new, even though they are too short)

Personally instead of HS2 i really think that they should improve the current trains, for example get rid of the pacers, and perhaps the 150s and replace them with newer longer stock, and improve the Cross Country routes so that it can cover the whole country rather than the South West - North East). Saying that though, I doubt very much that HS2 will ever happen it will probably be cancelled after the election anyway. I do think that it should happen, but it should cover more than London - Birmingham (and Manchester / Liverpool), It should go all the way to Inverness! and across to Belfast and Dublin but that's just a stupid idea since that will never happen!

Another Solution connect HS1 to HS2 and have trains going from Dover / Ramsgate - Birmingham or Manchester? (that wouldn't need any more building in the south east, other than the London End of HS2)

[MuzTrem]

Personally instead of HS2 i really think that they should improve the current trains, for example get rid of the pacers, and perhaps the 150s and replace them with newer longer stock, and improve the Cross Country routes so that it can cover the whole country rather than the South West - North East). Saying that though, I doubt very much that HS2 will ever happen it will probably be cancelled after the election anyway. I do think that it should happen, but it should cover more than London - Birmingham (and Manchester / Liverpool), It should go all the way to Inverness! and across to Belfast and Dublin but that's just a stupid idea since that will never happen!

Well I think a lot of work is being done to improve the current network. My response to those in our area who complain that HS2 won't bring any benefit to the county, I respond that Chiltern are pressing ahead with Evergreen 3. As has had much coverage in the railway press, this means a Chiltern service to Oxford, but it also means most of the existing Chiltern line being upgraded for 100mph running, and new trains for a dedicated suburban service south of Gerrard's Cross. This means better, faster, more frequent services, so the local population will be well taken care of. I realise that not every TOC is as enterprising as Chiltern, but perhaps they might be if the DfT were prepared to grant them 20-year franchises, as they did for Chiltern!

Yes, BR and its successors have done a lot of work to improve the exisiting network, much of which the public aren't aware of. But we all know that the Victorian network will forever be handicapped by its restricted loading gauge and, in the case of the WCML, by gradients, curvature, etc. In any case, there have been overcrowding problems on many routes in recent years, so it can't hurt to have the extra capacity. And what the government is finally offering us here is a brand new main line, built for high speeds and the European loading gauge.

Sometimes in life, you have to start with a clean slate if you want to allow real progress. If we want that new railway age, a world where railways can hold their own against domestic flights and leave motorway traffic for dust, then we should be fighting for HS2! For too long, the government's attitude to rail has beeen at best lukewarm and at worst downright hostile (Marples!). Now that they're finally showing signs of being proactive about rail, we have to show that we support them on this, or I fear the road lobby will find it all too easy to gain the ascendency again. In particular, if the Tories win the next election we have to convince them that they need to proceed with this project, even if it will cut through their safest seat!

[jbilton]

Hi

I wouldn't disagree with the above ..... but if its Government money to be spent... we really need to revitalize the 'North' first.
There's no point in a fast railway to nowhere.... and nothing.
Steve the original poster of this thread spends half his life on the train.... why?
Policy for the last thirty years has been to put all our eggs in the financial basket, in the SE and specifically London.
This has failed dramatically and miserably.
It is time for a change .... but not just a little one.

Thirty five years ago there were plans to move Parliament to near Sheffield .... it was a good plan .... of course it was dropped.

Cheers
Jon

[MuzTrem]

Well, for my part, I think much of the above makes a lot of sense. Whilst I'm as concerned as all the NIMBYs about the destruction of the Chiltern countryside, the REAL solution to that problem is to create opportunities in the North so there's less demand for housing round London.

Given that none of the previous attempts at pushing government departments out to the regions really seem to have solved this problem, perhaps moving Parliament itself would be the best way to achieve it. It would be a shame to abandon the old Houses of Parliament but I suppose they'd make another excellent museum/tourist attraction for London...

Have we found something we agree on, then?

[jbilton]

Well, for my part, I think much of the above makes a lot of sense. Whilst I'm as concerned as all the NIMBYs about the destruction of the Chiltern countryside, the REAL solution to that problem is to create opportunities in the North so there's less demand for housing round London.

Given that none of the previous attempts at pushing government departments out to the regions really seem to have solved this problem, perhaps moving Parliament itself would be the best way to achieve it. It would be a shame to abandon the old Houses of Parliament but I suppose they'd make another excellent museum/tourist attraction for London...

Have we found something we agree on, then?

Hi
It looks like it ....

Cheers
Jon

[qzdcg8]

Bits of government/civil service have been pushed out - ONS and HMPS pushed to Newport, BBC going up to Salford

I think even without the high speed / reduced travel times, HS2 is worth it for capacity reasons - apologies for being somewhat vitriolic on that previous post, working in the SE I hear too many inward looking opinions from short sighted people

Incidentally I'm curious to know where the bit north of Lichfield is going to go and how its going to get into Manchester - the Trent and Mersey Valleys are considerable obstacles...

[jbilton]

Hi
The question of capacity is still looking at the symptoms, rather than the problem.
Why is there a capacity problem,when there wasn't in the 60s and 70s even the early 80s.
Something has gone wrong.
Cheers
Jon

[MuzTrem]

Population increase?

[jbilton]

Hi
I doubt it .... its not that big a rise.

Date Total (Households) [Children]

1970 55,632 (18,656) [2.98199]

1980 56,330 (20,363) [2.76629]

2010 60,351 (26,788) [2.25291]

Cheers
Jon

[a214sli]

Economy growing and more people travelling by rail (growth outstripping growth in road transport, therefore modal shift to rail).

I'm also interested how HS2 could reach Manchester - suppose it could reach Leeds via parts of the old GCR, though acknowledge significant obstacles there e.g. preserved GCRs, getting into Leicester/Nottingham. The Government report hints at a TransPennine HS2, though this is mentioned more explicitly in the Greengauge 21 study - would think Woodhead would be a prime candidate for South Transpennine. though possibly with tilting trains at lower speeds (still faster than now).