Southern EMUs

phat2003uk · Post by **phat2003uk** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 6:27 pm

I think we need more old southern EMUs as the only ones we have are the 4 cigs so I've researched and found these old ones.

Class 411 BEP
Class 412 CEP
Class 421 CIG
Class 422 COP
Class 423 VEP

Correct me if I've got any of the names wrong but I think there right!

thanks

P.S. If you would like more info into creating these great EMUs go to this website: http://www.semg.org.uk/photoind.html#emu

Horgy · Post by **Horgy** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 6:52 pm

Ed's a CIG man, because they havent ugraded where he lives

But from my understanding they are all pretty the same, somewhere on here is a description of what the COP, BIG, CIG, CEP, BEP, etc.. are..

**Pokes Dave Roles for response

Horgy

phat2003uk · Post by **phat2003uk** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 6:58 pm

But they've got slight differences so a 4 cig wouldn't look right on a 412 CEP route.

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:54 pm

don't forget the most powerfull british emu - 4 REP

Horgy · Post by **Horgy** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:55 pm

Thats the 442 now isn't it? Or isn't that the fastest one?

Horgy

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:02 pm

no the 442 wessex electrics, were built using the traction motors from the 4 REPs, they took one motor coach from some REPs and replaced it with a class73, to recover the REP traction motors.

southcoasttrains · Post by **southcoasttrains** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:37 pm

411 - ???
412 - CEP
421 - CIG, BIG, COP
423 - VEP, BEP

Basically
There are 4CIG's for download which have been put under the 421 Greyhound units which don't exsist in that class

The 423 can be made by changing the textures on the outside and moving the interior around.

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:00 pm

Ouch

Southern Emu's,

4CIG/4BIG, Now from 1964/65 when Cigs and Bigs were first introduced for the central section, the C in Cig was for Corridor and the B in Big was for Buffet, the IG was the LB&SCR old telegraph code for Brighton, this fitted in with the way Brighton central stock was identified and as such these units were (CIG) "Corridor Brighton Stock" and (BIG) "Buffet Brighton Stock", since the units have been used elsewhere the IG has been taken to mean "intermediate guards van". The difference between a CIG and a BIG is only one coach, where the Cig has a "Trailer Second Open" the BIG has a Buffet Coach.

3COP, these are in fact the old 4 BIG's with the Buffet coach removed, when there were new regulations regarding the kitchens on the buffet coaches it was deemed far two expensive to carry out the upgrades, don't quote me but I believe it was in the region of Â£250,000 per unit, nobody wanted to pay , Connex, Leasing company, or the Catering company, well that was the story at the time, these units were then stripped of all first class compartments, all the seats in first class stayed in the same position as it was to much work to move all the under seat heaters, but became second class so most of the seats were laid out 2+2 but at the ends you have half a coach of 4+0, the guards cab also had an extra window fitted which allows him on straight track to see all of the interior both ways, I assume COP stands for Corridor Open Plan.

4CEP/4BEP, again these were used on the Kent Coast Mainlines into London, the C and B stood for the same as in the CIG/BIG above, the EP stood for Electro Pneumatic Brakes, where the CIG/BIG had all the traction motors and equipment slung under the motor coach which was one of the intermediate coaches, the CEP/BEP had it split at each end of the 4 car unit under the drivers cab.

4REP, not had much experiance working on this stock, they were very powerful as a 4 car unit 3000hp, but they would run most of the time pulling or pushing 2x 4TC units, so making a twelve car unit of 3000hp, the CEP/BEP/CIG/BIG were all 1000hp per 4 car unit, so when you had three of these coupled together to make a twelve car you once again had a twelve car unit of 3000hp.

Hope that sheds some light on it

Reference, Me and Southern Region Multiple units by G.D. Beecroft and B. Rayner, well you didn't expect me to remember all that from training school

Dave.

southcoasttrains · Post by **southcoasttrains** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:24 pm

I though the COP standed for Corridor Open Plan, but the C is ment to mean Coastway as these units are only used between Seaford and Littlehampton. Thier unit numbers begin with 14xx.

IG I always though ment Internal Gangway but Intermediate Guard fits in as well.

Kerry, do you know what the DIG's looked like, where they two units joined onto each other or were two driving trailers replaced by a Trailer Second opens?

DIG's stood for Double Intermediate Guard?

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:45 pm

Correct me if I am wrong Edmund, are you refering to the 8DIG's for the Capital Coast Express, if so then they were made up of 1xCIG and 1xBIG the two units were semi permanently coupled together only seperated at times of maintenance if needed, the inner two driving trailers were still there but had the cab's locked out of use, indeed they were a good source of spare parts until sombody relised that they would be needed to be driven from those cabs one day

as far as I remember there was three such units.

Coastway instead of corridor, could well be Edmund, at the time it was a bid to cut down on the vandalism on both Coastway lines.

Dave.

basildd · Post by **basildd** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:34 pm

The 4 REP's were hellfire to work! They were all named but the names where carried on a mirror style plate inside the Restaurant car. I have lots of mixed memories of working with them, especially as a guard. They were fast, noisy when going flat out and earned their names as Southern deltics (based on the HP output). Most memorable trips include a formation which had 3009 + 406 + 3011 from Bournemouth to Waterloo without one of them being cut out! Also had a few workings with a VEP + TC + REP and also a few REP + TC + 33 formations. I managed to get electrocuted by 3002 when I attempted to whack a fuse back into the electrical cupboard with my bardic lamp after a passenger reported smoke pouring out of the cupboard while i was going through the train doing tickets. As the train crossed from the fast to the slow line approaching Southampton station, I missed with the bardic and put my hand straight onto the arcing fuse and managed to get the trains current running through me. So if anyone wants to know what people think in those near death experiences, I can tell them first hand. I survived only because I was a bit of a rebel at the time and was wearing trainers, which melted. I obviously had an affinity with REPS because I joined the guards van of 3003 at Basingstoke one fateful morning, en route to a fire training session at Clapham Yard, only to be hiked off by the Senior Railman as the Station Supervisor at Basingstoke had gone sick. The train set off without me but never made Waterloo as it was the unit destroyed in the Clapham Junction disaster - I knew many people who were on the train including the drivers... I was also the guard of 3013 and TC unit 405 when some idiot thought it would be a good idea to light some newspaper and stuff it in a seat in the first class of the TC - we were belting through the New Forest at the time and by the time we stopped the Unit was well ablaze - the first class coach was totally gutted and scrapped. I am not the only person in myfamily that has a claim to fame with REPs either - my father was the guard of 3009 when it was being used on braking test trials between Basingstoke and Woking. The train was fitted with weights and wired up by Derby Tech staff and was delimited (Speed cut off wise). Dispensation was obtained from the ROM to run the Unit as fast as they could before applying the brakes to do an emergency stop, in order to test the equipment. The unit produced a tachograph reading which my father was allowed to keep at the end of the tests. Because it was a braking trial and not a speed trial, the speed was never published (plus it would have invalidated English Electrics warranty on the Mechanical parts apparently) - the unit achieved a speed faster than a High Speed train, a couple of years before 252001 under took trials! The driver of the test was also destined to work faster trains - he now drives Eurostars!

It is a great shame none of the units survived until this more enlightened age and made it into preservation....

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:55 pm

Basingstoke used to work the 2212 bournmouth to basingstoke(arrive around midnight) on friday's this used to be a 4REP. one friday we had two, (one on its own was a bit of a monster) but with two it was incredible.
i recall the early brake testing as well, they would hold the EMU speed record without question

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:05 pm

Sounds like you two had your hands full, what needed to be cut out when you ran two REP's together to avoid overloading the section?

Dave.

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:15 pm

you needed to cut out the traction motors on one of the units, because the 3rd rail could not supply enough power if another emu was on the same power section.
with one REP the acceleration wasn't bad but with two !!!!!!!

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:23 pm

Thanks for that Glyn, with two there was loads of hp, very rapid

Dave.