Australian Copywrite Issues

[supergoods]

There seems to be great confusion on the Australian MSTS scene which is covered in a series of posts on Railpage

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11324351.htm

As of this morning all down loads except locomotives built before 1955 and in their pre 1955 liveries liveries have been removed from the Steam4me site pending resolution of the unintended effects of the copywrite laws on anything subsequent to that date.

Routes have also been removed while advertising hoardings, etc are reviewed,

Hopefully this will get cleared up soon

Ian

[jbilton]

Hi Ian
Well thats a little better than last week, as none of the downloads were working.
Cheers
Jon

[supergoods]

Freight and Brake Vans section is now active limited to very traditional vehicles

Suits me fine that way, but I know a lot of modern stuff will be greatly missed if this is the way "forward?"

Ian

[ianmacmillan]

I've got half way thru the posts in the Railpage forum and think they are panicing over nothing.

We get the same subjects popping up every year on this forum and as yet no one has been in court.

I certainly have no intention of withdrawing my Procor built Campbells soup van.

Copywrite applies to a big lump of metal on wheels - not some pixels on your monitor.

[alanch]

What surprises me about this whole furore in the trainsim community in Australia is that it appears to have been started by an individual based on his experiences 'policing' the pirating of music CDs. Some of his postings over the last few months are far from coherent and seem to have little relevance to trainsim modelling.

I can understand why Yuri has removed much of the material from his site while the situation is unclear, given the apparently punitive nature of the Australian copyright laws, but I do hope that they are taking real legal advice and things get back to normal.

IMHO it appears unlikely that any of this applies here in the UK.

Alan

[steam4me]

A few points:

1. A lot of these changes are being driven by changes to the copyright laws and more importantly changes in attitude to enforcement of copyright breaches by the USA: as part of Australia signing a Free Trade Agreement with the US (somehow I think our government got seriously dudded in the deal), there have had to be alterations in copyright law, inter alia
* increasing the protected period from 50 to 70 years;
* allowing legally one copy of a TV prgramme to be recorded and watched ONCE ONLY before you are required to erase it (oh yeah! wow!);
* changes to make it easier to litigate copyright breaches (according to my solicitor today, the current customary "cease and desist" warning may well be phased out.... "but you really need to speak to an QC/SC expert in the copyright field to be sure" - and how many hundred dollars will that cost me?).

Interestingly, Australia has not adopted the less stringent US "fair use" laws, nor, as far as I can see, has the US modified any of its copyright laws to fall in line with Australia's laws.

2. I'm bemused by the fact that everyone seems outraged that we should have to ask a company for permission to use their logo (which has usually cost them a considerable degree of money in design), whilst 3d modellers here and on train-sim.com get very upset if their name isn't mentioned in the readme of a route in which their creation has been used.

3. As for "there's some confusion...." - I'm not at all confused. we (team-ALCO) have started contacting the copyright owners and so far have had mostly positive feedback, so I would expect modern models to start trickling back over the next few weeks. I can easily accept that this should have been done from day one.

4. Auran have also now posted on their Trainz forums that items bearing copyrighted images may be rejected.

5. Finally, I'm told that there *has* been an Australian HO modelling company that ran into considerable legal "difficulties" when they released rolling stock bearing copyrighted logos without first seeking permission: the vehicles were finally released, but not before considerable activity by legal people (and thus considerable cost) from both sides.

Regards

Yuri, webmaster
_______________________________

steam4me
Freeware Australian MSTS Add-Ons & Tutorials
team-ALCO
Quality Australian payware MSTS Add-Ons
_______________________________

[rr742]

HI all
The Gumleaf mafia is alive an well lol
Some of you might remember me from my vic sparks cab series
or reskins of peter harveys coronation streamliners an a few other bits an bobs..im an old boilermaker from vic..intro ends

I totally agree with you thoughts allan.After bieng away from the scene for 2 years,
ive spent 2 days reading whats been going on at the other place, so i could make an informed opion,which i shall keep to myself for now.
but i will say this, that individual of which you speak,
Hidden agenda,scaremongering,self indulgent ego stroking,just a few of the words that spirng to mind.

I fully suport your actions Yuri..Rule number 1 cover your backside..Rule 2 :see rule number 1

Kind regards Shane

When all else fails ...........read the instructions!

[Alltrains]

Hi Shane & Allanch
Let me clear the air for you
I am the person who is employed by the Australian Government to enforce the copyright laws (and not just DVD's and CD's) of this country that you claim has a hidden agenda, scaremongering, self indulgent ego stroking.
I take offence at your claims as you have not bothered to get the full facts of the matter.
I suggest that you spend more than two days and read all the threads that are involved in this, which go back twelve to eighteen months and you would see where there has been accusations of route theft and another member taking other peoples work and re-skinning it and releasing it as their own work with threats of legal action being taken against him for copyright infringement when the original 3D modeller did not have permission from the copyright owner in the first place.
I am not the one who threatened to take others to court over copyright infringements but I did advise those that did make those threats to make sure that they did not infringe copyright in the first place.
I suggest that you contact Big Ed and ask him about what happened over on RP.

[rr742]

(post edited )

Thankyou russell

I do not need you to clear anything for me..you have your opinion i have mine
....
Kind regards shane

[Easilyconfused]

OK. Listen good people because I will only say this once.

What has occured on other forums stays on other forums and does not come here. Anybody needing a refresher course in the forum guidelines can visit http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewforum.php?f=168 where a number of quite simple guidelines are stated so we can all get on with the far more serious business of train simulation.

The UKTS moderators can not and do not want to moderate other sites - that is for each site operator but anyone trying to bring unpleasantness here will be dealt with using this site's code of conduct.

Thanks for your understanding. Should anyone have any issues they would like to discuss with the moderators or the site owner then the "report to moderator" link does work well as does the facility to PM a moderator.

Kindest regards

John

[rr742]

Agreed
No further unpleasantness from me.

Kind regards Shane

[biged]

As Basil Faulty says
SSHHH dont mention the war!
Please dont keep flogging a dead horse.
Whats done is done arguing the point is only slowing things down by upsetting people.
Alltrains has a better idea of australian copyrite law than most of us ever will.
Let the matter drop and be fixed in a proper manner as it is.
I almost considered quitting MSTS because all this copyrite crud was getting to me but found an exellent bunch of blokes here who renewed my interest.

I came here because I wanted to come to a forum that I wouldnt need a asbestos suit and with Matts moron blaster switched to kill as Yuri put it.
And its starting again.
Let the flaming continue on that some other forum.
Most of the people here on the ANZAC forum are developers for MSTS, here to have a good enjoyable time and swap Ideas and just arnt interested and dont need this mud dragged up again and again.

It should have gone no further than Yuris reply which was sound and reasonable.
To Quote Yul Brenner "Let it be written let it be done"
This thread neednt go any further as I think every possible answer has been given within australian copyrite law which in my opinion is stupid but its the law.
I for one am not going to risk a fine or conviction just over some silly MSTS models, man its just a hobby not a life.
Hoping not to sound insultory or inflamatory as this message was written with no malice intended but this just keeps going on and on, when will it stop.
Cheers Ed

[rr742]

ok i have withdrawn my post it was a goodn though lol

Lets us move on


Regards shane

[Easilyconfused]

OK. I think I will lock the thread now. People have had their say and as I posted earlier - what has happened elsewhere is not going to be dragged up here.

I don't see any constructive purpose in continuing this thread.

Any complaints then PM another moderator or the site owner.

Kindest regards

John