'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby ckmemphis on Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:34 pm

DavidVI wrote:I sent a few emails in the weeks after the release. Mentioning the passenger issues, especially at LST, with screenshots. I got told there would be an update. I don't think it ever happened.

I just lost hope and feel like by emailing all these little problems I am in the minority and they wouldn't do anything anyway. Afterall i've not seen many posts from people noticing the problems I've picked up. Quite shocked really! It's really like there was no quality control.. or someone forgot.. or they just wanted a rushed release.

That's how I can explain the fact there are whistle boards included with the route but not used at all. Someone forgot or didn't get around to it in time?

GEML is the one route I've wanted in a Train Sim since I can remember so I am spending a lot of time on it. Since it's been out it's really pushed me to try new things.. Before GEML I could make just activities.. Now I am delving into the editor fixing these issues and have been doing repaints for future activities..

It does cause a bit of inner stress because I want to us these improvements in a future activity pack (filling the holes the first one left!) but I wonder if potential purchasers would be put off if it also installed a cloned version of the GEML route.

If anyone has noticed any weird issues on their journey's on GEML, let me know and i'll try get round fixing them.


Without folks like you, this sim wouldn't be as great as it is today. It's been said before that freeware devs care more about the end product than RSC do most of the time. Yes, you do get great products coming from them, but that isn't a guaranteed thing.

I honestly don't drive the roue myself, because I can see this wasn't properly finished off like it should have been. Floating objects, signals with wrong settings, people walking below he bridge and off the platforms. It just shows a product unfinished, and as good as it is, it's those small things that act against it being so great. Look at L2B, the only thing I could see missing are tunnels occlusions, and stop markers attached to trackworks.... Apart from that, it's still an insanely awesome route. That is why so many folks will choose L2B over GEML.

And it's downright sad that RSC will look past these things although many attempts are made by the community to help them out and do the work for them. they only have to implement and send out the patch. they can quickly release a patch to change all the old logo's, but can spend a week to update and fix problems and shortcomings that members of the community have picked up. It really is sad as it seems once something is released, that's the end of it, no further updates. Rolling stock as well...

Regardless of that, if a patch is released from you to fix the issues you have done so far, there will be hundreds of members that will download and enjoy it. Trust me on that one.
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby Fodda on Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:32 pm

ckmemphis wrote:... Look at L2B, the only thing I could see missing are tunnels occlusions...


Cue sound of my own trumpet being blown...

Invalid File ID [30423]
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DavidVI on Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:13 pm

ckmemphis wrote:
DavidVI wrote:I sent a few emails in the weeks after the release. Mentioning the passenger issues, especially at LST, with screenshots. I got told there would be an update. I don't think it ever happened.

I just lost hope and feel like by emailing all these little problems I am in the minority and they wouldn't do anything anyway. Afterall i've not seen many posts from people noticing the problems I've picked up. Quite shocked really! It's really like there was no quality control.. or someone forgot.. or they just wanted a rushed release.

That's how I can explain the fact there are whistle boards included with the route but not used at all. Someone forgot or didn't get around to it in time?

GEML is the one route I've wanted in a Train Sim since I can remember so I am spending a lot of time on it. Since it's been out it's really pushed me to try new things.. Before GEML I could make just activities.. Now I am delving into the editor fixing these issues and have been doing repaints for future activities..

It does cause a bit of inner stress because I want to us these improvements in a future activity pack (filling the holes the first one left!) but I wonder if potential purchasers would be put off if it also installed a cloned version of the GEML route.

If anyone has noticed any weird issues on their journey's on GEML, let me know and i'll try get round fixing them.


Without folks like you, this sim wouldn't be as great as it is today. It's been said before that freeware devs care more about the end product than RSC do most of the time. Yes, you do get great products coming from them, but that isn't a guaranteed thing.

I honestly don't drive the roue myself, because I can see this wasn't properly finished off like it should have been. Floating objects, signals with wrong settings, people walking below he bridge and off the platforms. It just shows a product unfinished, and as good as it is, it's those small things that act against it being so great. Look at L2B, the only thing I could see missing are tunnels occlusions, and stop markers attached to trackworks.... Apart from that, it's still an insanely awesome route. That is why so many folks will choose L2B over GEML.

And it's downright sad that RSC will look past these things although many attempts are made by the community to help them out and do the work for them. they only have to implement and send out the patch. they can quickly release a patch to change all the old logo's, but can spend a week to update and fix problems and shortcomings that members of the community have picked up. It really is sad as it seems once something is released, that's the end of it, no further updates. Rolling stock as well...

Regardless of that, if a patch is released from you to fix the issues you have done so far, there will be hundreds of members that will download and enjoy it. Trust me on that one.


Thanks for the kind words.

All i'm after is an as imersive and realistic experience as possible. Silly things like signs cutting into monitor screens, floating passengers among other things just break imersion. Since I did the first GEML activity pack for TSS I have sortof burnt myself out slightly with regards to activities. I have been planning the next pack since before I finished the first but really wanted to learn some more skills to make the next pack even better. One of these was re-paints.. which i've achieved, 156 + 153 in GA red, Class 57 in DRS (For the RHTT), A few MK3 GA reskins. Also I have worked on learning how to make weather blueprints to make the activities unique and interesting.. A bit of LUA Scripting also to make pop-up instructions easier to understand and digest, with images, LUA also useful for changing the weather during an activity.

And along with the above I wanted to improve all the annoying things I found on GEML while making the first activity pack.. For a realistic and challenging drive I like the idea of having to stop at the correct position at the platform.. not just anywhere like it allows currently. So adding the stop points was my first plan, along with corresponding Car stop signs. Just as I was doing this I noticed some of the problems I couldn't resist fixing while I did the stop markers :p

There are many more problems i'll get to now i've done the stop markers.. The passengers might the one thing I will be unable to really fix due to limitations and the fact RSC laid platforms on gradients.. Passengers only walk on the level so they end up being buried or floating when they walk further along.

I think one of the biggest imersion breakers is Stratford bridge with the passengers legs sticking out the bottom.. Due to the density of those passengers it's really hard to ignore... Whereas the occasional floating or suicidal passenger is something we've almsot come to accept and might be hard to sort.. Due to Stratford bridge being an arch the only solution might be to remove the passengers outright... I'm learning as I go so I might find another alternative.

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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DescendingSadly on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:19 pm

I'm all for what you're doing with the route, regardless of the bickering to be had about whether or not you should have to, it needs doing, and kudos to you for getting up and doing it! I'm trying to do the same with ECMLS,

1) You mention platforms being busier at certain times of the day than others, is this already implemented on ECML, if not, what do I need to look at to make it function?

2) How do you know where to place the car stop boards? you can only place a consist in the scenario editor to measure, and anything you place in that isn't "permanent".


Many thanks :eggface:
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DescendingSadly on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:21 pm

As a side note, I have managed to put in some Neutral Sections to ECML, using the assets from WCMLNorth, unfortunately that means I can't share it with the workshop.

Also, the AP TSR signs work very nicely too, and if you highlight a section of track, and replace it with TrackConcrete02, it looks like the track has been renewed and relaid, very cool :D
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DavidVI on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:58 pm

DescendingSadly wrote:I'm all for what you're doing with the route, regardless of the bickering to be had about whether or not you should have to, it needs doing, and kudos to you for getting up and doing it! I'm trying to do the same with ECMLS,

1) You mention platforms being busier at certain times of the day than others, is this already implemented on ECML, if not, what do I need to look at to make it function?

2) How do you know where to place the car stop boards? you can only place a consist in the scenario editor to measure, and anything you place in that isn't "permanent".


Many thanks :eggface:


I've had issues with the passenger density and need to do more experimenting. I'm not sure if ECML has it.. I really think it should as its a new feature and ECML is one of the first routes to be released for TS2014.. You'd think RSC would use the features they went on about before the release... A way you can tell is if you double click on a passenger area in the editor.. In the pop out on the right is a list of times and a corresponding % for the density.

Stop boards: Are there none at all on ECML? On GEML it appears random, some stations already have them.. some don't. Then theres some where the stop boards are in weird places! What I did is I searched for photos of the station I was working on (In this case I used Flickr) and tried to find photos that had the boards on.. Then I worked out where that was in game and placed them accordingly.. Sometimes it meant moving other signs around. Some stations seemed harder to find photos and for that I used a bit of common sense. You get the hang on of it and start to understand the reasoning behind where some are placed. On a few of the GEML stations the passenger entrance is at one end of the station, so an S car stop board is usually placed right at that end of the platform so all trains stop right near the entrance. In the other direction however they are placed as normal. I find it hard to explain but when you look at it it makes sense.

Heres an example.. (There might be stations on ECML like this)

Image
Image

At Manor Park the entrance to the station is at one end of the platforms. So trains traveling in that direction stop right at the end of the platform as it's already near the entrance to passengers.. So an S car stop sign is used, which means all trains stop at this point (unless there are other specific car stop signs).

The other end of the platform which is furthest away from the entrance has car stop signs as normal with usually if the platform is long enough, trains stopping as close to the entrance as possible.

Image

At this point car stop signs are only cosmetic. To make them actually mean something in an activity you have to at stop markers which for some reason are represented by a light (it only shows up in the editor). You place these where you like but link them to a point in the track which would be level with the stop signs. You can see how I label mine here..

Image
In the activity editor they show up as extra destinations, but tied to the corresponding station.

Image

A note, if using the stop markers, they have to be placed on a platform marker so they know which station they are for otherwise they won't show up in the list at all.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask any questions.. we're all learning!
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby deltic009 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:18 pm

DescendingSadly wrote:As a side note, I have managed to put in some Neutral Sections to ECML, using the assets from WCMLNorth, unfortunately that means I can't share it with the workshop

I don't think using WCML-N means you can't upload to the workshop as it is still an item availae through Steam and is official DLC - its using custom assets that mean you can't share via Workshop.
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DavidVI on Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:51 pm

The point of this thread was to figure out the correct way to distribute this when i'm done..

I just tried to upload the route on Workshop for a trial run and all went well until it said "Uploading", sat at 67% for a while then said "Failed to Publish". Very useful message there.. :\
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby 1S811985 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:17 pm

deltic009 wrote: Well, in order to get these improvements or jimessex route in it's entirety you need to have GEML from RSC - if people have been put off by the routes inaccuracies that have been published and shared online, and then somebody shares a workshop version that corrects 95% of the issues identified, then yes - I think this could boost sales of the RSC version of the route as the others will be dependent on it.


Still lost me I'm afraid. As I understand it Crouch Valley 3 is only using GEML for Liverpool Street. So why would someone shell out for a DLC route, in the full knowledge that it's so littered with errors, omissions and inaccuracies that it needed a community fix, when they can simply wait a while and get a quality freeware route that does almost exactly the same but with more and to a better standard?

Sorry, but for me the days of "must have everything, whatever its flaws" are over.

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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DavidVI on Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:34 pm

1S811985 wrote:
deltic009 wrote: Well, in order to get these improvements or jimessex route in it's entirety you need to have GEML from RSC - if people have been put off by the routes inaccuracies that have been published and shared online, and then somebody shares a workshop version that corrects 95% of the issues identified, then yes - I think this could boost sales of the RSC version of the route as the others will be dependent on it.


Still lost me I'm afraid. As I understand it Crouch Valley 3 is only using GEML for Liverpool Street. So why would someone shell out for a DLC route, in the full knowledge that it's so littered with errors, omissions and inaccuracies that it needed a community fix, when they can simply wait a while and get a quality freeware route that does almost exactly the same but with more and to a better standard?

Sorry, but for me the days of "must have everything, whatever its flaws" are over.

1S81


Do you own RSC's GEML?

I am surely one of the biggest critics due to living in Colchester right next to the mainline which I travel on and have grown up around. So naturally I notice little things, but the thing is it still is a great route, it's got silly issues but the trackwork and 90% of the infrastructure/buildings/stations are spot on. There are just weird issues that must have been missed. But they are minor things that can be sorted.

Some of the bigger problems are problems that seem to lie in most of RSC's routes and are problems with the game engine itself.. the floating passengers for example.
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby gptech on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:55 pm

DavidVI wrote:I've had issues with the passenger density and need to do more experimenting.


There are a couple of lines in the file ..\RailWorks\Content\PlayerProfiles.bin that seem to relate to the demsity of passengers.
Code: Select all
         <GameplayPassengerCharacters d:type="sInt32">1</GameplayPassengerCharacters>
....
...
...
         <DetailPassengerCharacters d:type="sInt32">1</DetailPassengerCharacters>

I haven't experimented with the first of those, but I believe the default value for the second is '2'---dropping it down to '1' may thin the numbers down a bit. I don't have the route so can't say whether it's effective .
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby DavidVI on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:48 pm

gptech wrote:
DavidVI wrote:I've had issues with the passenger density and need to do more experimenting.


There are a couple of lines in the file ..\RailWorks\Content\PlayerProfiles.bin that seem to relate to the demsity of passengers.
Code: Select all
         <GameplayPassengerCharacters d:type="sInt32">1</GameplayPassengerCharacters>
....
...
...
         <DetailPassengerCharacters d:type="sInt32">1</DetailPassengerCharacters>

I haven't experimented with the first of those, but I believe the default value for the second is '2'---dropping it down to '1' may thin the numbers down a bit. I don't have the route so can't say whether it's effective .


I believe that is like the old graphic option that would turn down the density overall. What i'm on about and trying to achieve is one of the new features that makes platforms busier at different times of day.
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby gptech on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:58 pm

Ah, sorry... I misunderstood.
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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby 1S811985 on Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:42 pm

DavidVI wrote:Do you own RSC's GEML?


No. I'm not going to be buying it either and, to return to the point I'm making here, the existence of a "fix" package does nothing to convince me to put my hand into my pocket. Quite the reverse in fact.

Now people are going to come along and throw various things at me. I'm being negative; I'm a knocker; I should just shut up and go away because nobody is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to buy it etc, etc. Anybody who's spent ten minutes on this forum could write you the script.

All I'm saying is that for me it's simply not good enough.

Things like bridges across the track, missing OLHE sections and wrongly placed signage are unacceptable in any payware product. End of.

Things like stop boards and associated track markers have been around for years, since at least SECML and we, the customers, are surely entitled to expect them as standard issue in anything being produced for money in 2013. Anyone charging for something, be it a route a locomotive or whatever that doesn't clear a straight-forward bar that was set yonks ago is, quite frankly, having a laugh.

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Re: 'GEML Enhanced' Patches.. Distributing route modifications ?

Postby mikesimpson on Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:52 pm

Although I have criticized RSC in the past, I really think some of the criticism here is uncalled for. The GEML is a great route, I used to travel on it every day as far as Manor Park, and it still looks good.

Obviously there are bound to be some errors, RSC have profits to make, staff to pay and timelines to meet, so they do the best they can with the resources available. Remember also that a railway is a dynamic entity, changes are made to signs and even trackwork and signalling on a regular basis, so a photo of a station, even a few years old is not necessarily how things are today.

David is to be applauded for the work he has done to fix things and hopefully he will be able to release these fixes via the Workshop, or even here on UKTS. But you can't really expect RSC to get the position of every piece of gravel on the route correct - this is a route about 65 miles long...

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