Signalling

[wolly1380]

I see, thanks for that AndiS. As you mention yes this is my first go at script editting and I am after a fun fix would like to see what I can do and although I understand signaling from a drivers point of view I am not to hot on a planing point of view although I don't want to throw the towl in just yet. But would those lines make any differance to the delay or is there alot more to it than that?

[ozziedriver]

Just been looking at the world editor video again and near the end there is a few second on signal placement
What are all the different colours over the rail bed all about
Some of the track speed indicator placement suggests defining a length of track as speed for a section of track
Could this be the case with the signals whereby you have to define the signals track circuit length or length you want protected
I’m only going on what I see in the video, as I don’t have railsim and by the look of thing won’t buy it until items I consider need to work a dam side better than has been supplied mainly signals
Ozdriver

[johny]

The non-illumination of the semaphore arm spectacles seems to be a problem with the texture. The signal lamp is permanently on (white), so the intention must have been to have coloured semi-transparent spectacle lenses and not the solid bright colours as at present. I only discovered this whilst examining the various signal shapes in the editor and found that two of the wooden shunt signals have their semaphore arm partly buried in the ground, thus exposing the signal lamp in all its glory at the top of the post.

John

[AndiS]

Some of the track speed indicator placement suggests defining a length of track as speed for a section of track
Could this be the case with the signals whereby you have to define the signals track circuit length or length you want protected

Quite certainly not.
Tracks have some speed limit property, in fact several, but I don't remember which. So what you see in the video will set that track speed for that part of track - as property of the rails, not the signal.

When you pass a TPWS, it asks the system about the current speed limit. The answer of the system might depend on the type of train, and of course on the property of the track. Then the TPWS asks for the speed of the train, and if the latter exceeds the limit it sends a warning to the train.

The distance at which any signal (the TPWS is a signal) works is encoded in the script, once and for all. You can change it there, but this will effect all instances of that signal. Of course, you can define two variants, if you need two.

[AndiS]

A stupid terminology question: The generic name for a semaphore with a red arm is stop signal, not home signal, right?

And the correct name for a signal with two or more red arms - divert signal, junction signal?

Home and starter refers to the location, as far as I know, but I need to refer to the make, not the position or usage.

[ordan77]

A stupid terminology question: The generic name for a semaphore with a red arm is stop signal, not home signal, right?

Mostly - in the UK it was (like many things) originally regional practice, since standardised as you describe.

And the correct name for a signal with two or more red arms - divert signal, junction signal?

Typically "Junction Signal", though also commonly known as a "Bracket Signal", due to the method of mounting.

Home and starter refers to the location, as far as I know, but I need to refer to the make, not the position or usage.

Yes, You get an approach sequence of Distant, Outer Home, Home, Starter and Advanced Starter - though again, this was regional, sometimes it would be Distant, Home 1, Home 2, Starter 1, Starter 2 etc.

[Tomnick]

I'd suggest that, for the purposes of this sim, the Midland practice of Home 1, Home 2 etc. right through to the single Starter (effectively Section Signal; controlling entry to the block section ahead) would be most appropriate. The Starter then provides an effective 'marker' for the Distant signal to 'read' to (i.e. until all signals up to and including the next Starter are clear, the Distant won't clear), and until the Starter is in a position to clear, Home signals in rear will not clear until the train is closely approaching them.

[bristolian]

Just a thought for the mods, how about creating a seperate sub-forum for Signalling matters, and moving this thread there.
It would be useful to keep any other signalling threads that might arise all in one place.

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

[johny]

The non-illumination of the semaphore arm spectacles seems to be a problem with the texture. The signal lamp is permanently on (white), so the intention must have been to have coloured semi-transparent spectacle lenses and not the solid bright colours as at present. I only discovered this whilst examining the various signal shapes in the editor and found that two of the wooden shunt signals have their semaphore arm partly buried in the ground, thus exposing the signal lamp in all its glory at the top of the post.

I have attempted to do similar in MSTS, positioned a white light behind the signal arm and created coloured transparencies, I tried various depths of masking, the only one that worked displayed the white light and that was very nearly full depth. If it is similar with EARS then it looks like it can't be done, and RSD need to revise their scripting to include red, yellow and green in front of the signal arm just as MSTS does. They have obviously got it correct for the colour-light signals why not a similar method for semaphores, they have them working like colour-lights in other respects.

John

[JasonM]

Just a thought for the mods, how about creating a seperate sub-forum for Signalling matters, and moving this thread there.
It would be useful to keep any other signalling threads that might arise all in one place.

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

I second that.

[drjimi]

I don't yet have EARS (expected Nov 13th "over here"), but I have been reading these threads with interest in the hopes of implementing a LUL signal system as I have done in MSTS for the District Line. I managed to implement prototypical operation of all LUL signal types, except I have yet to successfully implement multi-home signals that truly 'read' track sections ahead (e.g. clear in succession as a train ahead leaves the platform). I did have the notion of implementing a hidden (or buried) signal (likely of type info and called 'track_circuit') that acted as an auto (only tested block occupancy). Then have the outer home query the 1st sig ahead of it of type info (the closest 'track_circuit') and setting the aspect based on the state of the track_circuit sig. Same for the inner home, except test the 2nd info sig ahead, etc. I think this should work. As the track_circuit sigs are of type Info, they do not affect the train.

Is there anything in EARS that anyone has found so far that would allow testing the state of a track circuit in advance of the current signal block in this manner, or is there a better approach to the goal? Similarly, I'd love to implement speed-sensing signals that clear if a train passes a 'detector' at or below goal speed. No sign of that functionality, I suspect?

Insights or ideas greatly appreciated!

EDIT: I suspect that Railtrack use of multi-homes is at least similar to LUL practice, but thought I'd add a reference for clarity.
TubePrune pages on LUL signals (multi-homes): http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/signalling1.htm#Multi%20Home%20Signals

Best, Jimi

[Tomnick]

The 'mainline' practice of having of several home signals within 'station limits' differs slightly from the LUL practice. The purpose of the latter is clearly to get a second train into a platform behind a departing previous train as quickly as possible - and this is generally, if I'm not mistaken, found on ordinary plain line sections with auto signals.

On NR, the 'additional' home signals serve a number of purposes. If you just had one home signal, which would have to be in rear of any pointwork in order to protect movements over that pointwork, then most shunts would need to be offered into the forward section - the provision of a starter (or more than one, reverting to the terminology that most are familiar with) means that you can shunt up to the starter, rather than into the section. If you have an advanced starter too, then you can maybe stand a train at that awaiting acceptance from the box in advance, and still carry out shunting, and/or accept a following train from the box in rear. The latter is, today, probably the most 'useful' result of providing more than one home signal at block posts - shunting has generally ceased, but it's still handy to get a train away to the starter so the following one can be accepted.

If your first home signal is immediately in rear of the pointwork (and generally a home signal would be provided in such a position), then any shunting will foul the clearing point ("overlap") for the section in rear - hence the provision of an additional outer home, 440 yards-ish in rear of the inner home.

[gmayo]

The 'mainline' practice of having of several home signals within 'station limits' differs slightly from the LUL practice. The purpose of the latter is clearly to get a second train into a platform behind a departing previous train as quickly as possible - and this is generally, if I'm not mistaken, found on ordinary plain line sections with auto signals.

I think you're referring to closing-up signals. These can be found at London Bridge and East Croydon, amongst other places. There are three signals involved - let's call them L1 for the platform starter, L2 for the signal in rear, which is very close to the platform if not actually on it, and L3 in rear of that. With a train in the station (and thus standing at L1), a second train will be held at L3 because the 1st train is occupying the overlap of L2. With me so far?!

Next, the 1st train starts moving and hits the first track circuit beyond L1. With a typical train, the overlap for L2 will become clear very soon after that. L3 thus clears, first to single yellow, then to double yellow if the 2nd driver is a little slow off the mark. The driver of the 2nd train thus gets a clear run into the platform - and saves 20-30 seconds in the process. Thus by adding an extra section in, which isn't "used" as such in the usual way, gets trains through faster than without it. I hope that makes sense.

Whether KRS can replicate this is another matter.

Regarding the comment about a signalling subforum - yes please.

Geoff M.

[JasonM]

Geoff do you think Simsig could link up to Rail simulator

Also thanks for the seperate signalling subforum Matt

[gmayo]

Geoff do you think Simsig could link up to Rail simulator

Well, I did broach the idea to them when I visited, but they weren't interested. So I asked whether the engine would be accessible in the same way that MS Flight Simulator is accessible to 3rd party software (the various ATC add-ons being a relevant example). Again, they weren't interested - but I don't know what the end result was, whether it is accessible at all.

Geoff M.