IMPORTANT NEWS : SCREENS OF MSTS II

[rabid]

The track "dynamically" created shown looks a little like a beginner's work in Trainz.

Haha. Hopefully it is ok for me to post here, but in many ways you are right. Some of the content used for that track video was created by me in-order to develop some code, and hasn't seen the TLC of an artist's touch yet. As other people have mentioned, things are still in the early stages.

I have been very excited for you guys to see this stuff and hear what you have to say. I will continue to read the forums and get ideas\opinions on stuff

Steve Heijster
Graphics Programmer
Microsoft Game Studios

Steve,

Post as often as you like. Some of us take the info' you give as it is, work in progress, others just show their ignorance and find fault no matter what you show or say, unless they are having a gripe they're not happy.

John

Do I take it that by expressing an opinion other than "Whoopee - Fantastic!" I am "showing my ignorance"? If you read my post you will see that I am just trying to understand the concept and expressing my thoughts positive and negative. Steve Heijster very kindly replied so it was constructive. (I do agree with you about the "that rivet should be 2 inches higher" mob though).

[NeutronIC]

Everyone is most welcome to state any views they have and indeed I am sure that Microsoft would be most interested to receive constructive (positive AND negative) feedback in order to help improve the product.

However, what I feel is NOT required (at least at this very early stage) are comments implying that what they are seeing is finished and have completely missed the point, leading to a flawed product. It's way way too early for any of that. There's lots of "nipping and tucking" that just won't go on at this point, that's for later on in the development - no point perfecting a model that might be rebuilt from the ground up three more times before release, after all, to take one example.

Welcome to Steve Heijster on to the forums, great to see you and we look forward to hearing more as you are able to share

I was delighted to see what was in the press kit, it makes the whole thing much more real and tangible. It also provides some insight as to the direction that's being taken - e.g. the "world of rail". It's a great concept and what i'm looking forward to understanding is how this will work with variations and changes made by particular route authors across overlapping sections - e.g. the NWE2 and Thames Mersey CD's overlap quite a bit in some areas, how's that going to work? Or what about a modern Paddington to Reading existing at the same time as a steam era one? I'm sure it's been thought about, and I look forward to seeing how it all hangs together in the fullness of time.

Fact is, having the entire rail network even at the present day, in from the outset, is going to make it a lot easier to get started. We may well see a lot of modern routes coming out as a result of it, and as much as I personally prefer a nice bit of steam - modern routes are widely much more popular, which should help cement MSTS 2 as the sim of choice.

The man on the side of one of the locos in one of the shots... i'm wondering how he got there... set piece? or something a bit more involving other real people perhaps... If Train Artisan ARE involved, maybe it's using some of what they were impressively demonstrating in videos once MSTS2 (the original) was canned.

Hmm, speaking of which, I really must get this forum renamed...

Matt.

[Riche]

Fact is, having the entire rail network even at the present day, in from the outset, is going to make it a lot easier to get started. We may well see a lot of modern routes coming out as a result of it, and as much as I personally prefer a nice bit of steam - modern routes are widely much more popular, which should help cement MSTS 2 as the sim of choice.

It would be good to have more modern routes, from which people could create earlier versions of the routes in the same way that people skin locos now.

It would also cut down the amount of time needed for a route like that to be made, with the modern trackwork and scenery in place, since it would basically involve removing non-prototypical scenery and adding track that was rationalised (or vice versa, if routes have been improved) and then adding prototypical scenery.

[CompanyNotch]

I've watched all press material and I must say, I'm disappointed.

It seems to me, M$ have finished the press kit head over heels. There are many mistakes, like the flipped normals on the wheels as posted before. If you watch the stuttering video, there is a very strange turnout on the left. In this video, the track radii look smaller than in a model railway. Like the KRS-team, the TS-team seem never have had a look at prototypical turnouts, otherwise they would have noticed that the guide rails never are glossy.

Shadows - or at least the deepest shadows - are missing in the ingame-shots. The cars look like pre-Trainz. Superelevation is not seen like mentioned before. Maybe, all that can be excused by the early development stage.

On one side, TS2 is very detailled and uses a lot of polys, the reflections are very nice. But altogether I have not the impression of real scale like in KRS.

Uli

Hi Uli and the rest:

A couple points of clarfication. You're right, the track switch in the video uses very sharp curvature. I even mentioned this issue to our marketing guys before we released the video, but we decided to show it anyway because it shows the spline track network in action. The point you should take away from this is that the track model is VERY flexible in the type and size of switches you will be able to use.

As Steve Heijster, one of the Trains team developers, mentions in his note below, the track models are still due for visual enhancements at the hands of our art team, including adding rust to the guard rails and portions of the rail surface that don't normally contact the wheels of passing equipment. You can be sure that we're working off tons of reference material and first-hand observations of how this equipment looks in the real world.

To this point, we just returned from a week in Pennsylvania doing research gathering work with one of our railroad partners. We brought back over 9300 digital images for just this location alone, not to mention hours of digital HD video.

As for shadows and superelvation, you're right - we're still early in the process. We'll have more to show here in the coming months.

-Rick

Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Game Studios

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

[CSXAC6000CW]

Rick what is the odds that this game may be for XP and Vista ?

[bigvern]

The ability to have sharp radii turnouts will assist those of us who want to develop the tramway side of things in the sim.

Edit

Re the use of splines, I hope we will still have the availability of fixed track pieces (or the ability to define a set radius). Although I'm learning the tricks, I still struggle with this aspect of TRS a bit - even with templates not easy to get your points looking good, eliminate "kinks" in straight sections or where you have reverse curves and dog-legs on sharp curves.

[fatuli]

...
The point you should take away from this is that the track model is VERY flexible in the type and size of switches you will be able to use.
...
You can be sure that we're working off tons of reference material and first-hand observations of how this equipment looks in the real world.
...
As for shadows and superelvation, you're right - we're still early in the process. We'll have more to show here in the coming months.

Thanks, Rick for your clarification. This was my first impression on your work and I wrote it down almost unfiltered.

Maybe it's too early to judge. But then you seem to suck in every word of the community to build up a product which will fit our needs. And I must say, it is very impressive to get an answer from you almost in the middle of saturday night. This is service par excellence.

If only I had a clapping hands emoticon...

Uli

[eaglefan]

Rick what is the odds that this game may be for XP and Vista ?

I wouldnt be surprised if this game will be able to run with XP. I dont think microsoft would be that stupid in making this game just for vista alone and here is why I think this.

Microsoft probably knows that there are quite a number of people that havent changed over to vista as of yet and wont do so until the bugs are worked out and when people get new computers.

My girlfriend and I had this discussion today concerning the issue and both of us agreed that if microsoft went the vista only option. They would loose thousands of dollars in sales especially if they plan to have this sim on the market next year and here are a couple reasons why.

1.) I dont think the majority of us simmers would change over from XP to vista just to run this sim. Of course, I could be wrong about this theory, But I know that I wouldnt change from XP to vista just to run this sim and my girlfriend who isnt a game buff wouldnt either. I would just wait to get the sim once I get a new computer with vista which will be the year 2010 for me as my computer is only a year old at this time.

2.) Im not sure what the price tag will be for the game and if it is the same as MSFS-X. It will be in the $60 range which I would have no problem spending if they game is good enough. The thing is that if they do it vista only and lets say the majority of the people dont get vista till 2010 or later. The game will probably be 10 to 20 dollars cheaper then the original price. If that is the case, Just add up the number of people doing it and add $20 to every sale and it adds up quickly.

3.) Here is the real killer if they go the vista only option with the sim. Like I said, I wont get a new computer till 2010 which will be when I get the vista program and if that is the case. I will get the new sim off ebay and microsoft will loose the whole sale of the sim which would a big hit on their pocket. Why should I spend full retail price if I can get it at about half price or lower on ebay?

This is why I think this sim will be for XP and vista. Of course, Microsoft could prove me wrong and if they do. I think it would be a stupid mistake on their part. Anyways, That is just my theory on this whole thing.

[CompanyNotch]

The ability to have sharp radii turnouts will assist those of us who want to develop the tramway side of things in the sim.

Exactly. This is by design. We know there is a contingent out there who wants to model light rail, subway, and transit lines. The ability to lay sharp radius turnouts permits this, among other things....

Re the use of splines, I hope we will still have the availability of fixed track pieces (or the ability to define a set radius). Although I'm learning the tricks, I still struggle with this aspect of TRS a bit - even with templates not easy to get your points looking good, eliminate "kinks" in straight sections or where you have reverse curves and dog-legs on sharp curves.

All good points, Vern, and all have been noted by those of us working on the track network design.

-Rick


Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Game Studios

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

[CompanyNotch]

Thanks, Rick for your clarification. This was my first impression on your work and I wrote it down almost unfiltered.

Maybe it's too early to judge. But then you seem to suck in every word of the community to build up a product which will fit our needs. And I must say, it is very impressive to get an answer from you almost in the middle of saturday night. This is service par excellence.

If only I had a clapping hands emoticon...

Uli

Thanks for the comments. My body clock is a bit messed up from being on the East Coast of the US for the past week. And besides, it's only 10 PM here in Redmond as I type this.

Aside from the fact I'm a train enthusiast like most of you, I and other members of the team are very keen to hear what you think. I look at it this way - it's our job to build a product you guys and gals want to buy. What better way to do this than to listen to what you're asking for?



-Rick


Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Game Studios

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

[eaglefan]

Aside from the fact I'm a train enthusiast like most of you, I and other members of the team are very keen to hear what you think. I look at it this way - it's our job to build a product you guys and gals want to buy. What better way to do this than to listen to what you're asking for?



-Rick


Rick Selby
Lead Game Designer
Microsoft Game Studios

http://yardlimits.spaces.live.com

I wish more companies would think like you guys do. It would be alot better in the business world of today.

[ARG706]

Rick, how detailed will the track be? Can it simulate very rough branchline style track with constant dips, bumps, mudholes, rough riding over joints and the like?

Preferrably, it would be decided by a paramater in the properties of the section of track you're laying on a scale of 1 to about 100. 1 would be representative of a recently laid well engineered concrete sleepered mainline with heavy rails, and 100 would be at a point where it would it be quite dangerous to go above walking pace. Of course, this will have to be reflected in the appearance of the track as well.

[dkightley]

Exactly. This is by design. We know there is a contingent out there who wants to model light rail, subway, and transit lines. The ability to lay sharp radius turnouts permits this, among other things....

That's music to my ears, Rick.


Doug

[Mike10]

Aside from the fact I'm a train enthusiast like most of you, I and other members of the team are very keen to hear what you think. I look at it this way - it's our job to build a product you guys and gals want to buy. What better way to do this than to listen to what you're asking for?

I have ot say that it is easy to 'talk a good fight', but harder to deliver a front coupler that actually works.

I'm sure the majority of the posts on here are good for your ego though

Mike.

[g0fthick]

Certainly looks the part, but correct me if i'm mistaken, this looks much more orientated towards our American chums.

If that's the case i can see my interest waining.